Talk:Thief (series)

Pagans symbol

The symbol of the pagan faction is NOT a flower against a background of the sun. It is the third eye of the Trickster !

Whoops. CABAL 09:13, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

The Shalebridge Cradle

Anyone wanna do an article on this level?--GreekWarrior 18:41, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

An article on a single level from a game? It'll be up for speedy deletion before you know it. By the way, you should add new items to the bottom of the talk page.--DooMDrat 22:17, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

Articles like that are not speedy candidates. Besides, each individual song on an album can get its own article. This mission is famous and also rather well-known even outside of the Thief crowd. The level has a lot of backstory too. Could be interesting if someone put a lot of work into it. --malathion ^talk 22:28, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, interesting point.--DooMDrat 04:30, August 1, 2005

Sorry for putting at top, but this mission is, as Malathion says, very famous in the gaming community. It has well earned it's title of 'scariest level ever', perhaps not an extra article but a sub-section in the Thief 3 sectin?--GreekWarrior 10:54, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

(UTC)

How about this: we can start a subsection for it under T3 (as it is certaintly worth calling attention to), then as it expands if it becomes unwieldy we can split it off to a separate article. Sound fair? — EagleOne\^Talk 16:54, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Sounds ok Eagle.--GreekWarrior 05:27, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Music

I can't quite peg down what genre of music the first game's soundtrack would fall into. Anyone have some insight on this? --BradBeattie 17:47, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

I would describe it as a sort of 'environmental ambience'. It can't really be classified in any traditional genre.--GreekWarrior 10:55, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

What about the music from the intros of the first two games, and credits as well? Its sounds almost like a variety of techno, but i have no idea what it is exactly. --Tani unit 11:48, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, I think it fits into some subgenre of "industrial". Maybe Coldwave or Industrial techno. See the List of industrial music subgenres for better details, and you can possibly make your own determination about it. --TouchGnome 17:40, 5 August 2005 (UTC) Addendum: Looking at the list of groups for EBM music, I think they may fit the sound of the Thief theme better than industrial. But don't take my word for it, since I tend to group all these genres together. --TouchGnome 18:38, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Page move?

Should it be moved to Thief (computer game series)?--DooMDrat 00:48, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

POV

There's a lot of POV in this article: In particular, judgments about the game being "engrossing" and so on. I hope I don't offend anyone when I edit this stuff out- I'm just about as big a Thief fan as you're going to find anywhere, and I loved every game and played them all repeatedly for months and years since their releases. But it's not the business of Wikipedia to make these kinds of subjective value judgments. --Malathion 03:31, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

By all means, do it. Wiki articles require balance, as the Keepers might say. --TouchGnome July 2, 2005 20:03 (UTC)

Then what about negative criticism of the games without sourcing? Saying things like "many fans felt so-and-so was bad" without a source is a bit silly and POV, right?

Haunt

An article that may be related to this game (it isn't clear) is listed at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Haunt. If anyone can shed light on this, and if appropriate rewrite or merge the content to this article, it would be appreciated. -- Infrogmation June 30, 2005 17:13 (UTC)

There is are undead enemies known as "Hammer Haunts" in Thief, but they bear no resemblance to the nonsense description in that article. I don't think there is any need to merge the content. --Malathion 30 June 2005 19:49 (UTC)

In case anyone's interested, the decision was to delete that page. --TouchGnome 04:00, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Quotes

The quote section is rather large, and should rightfully reside on the Thief entry on Wikiquote, not in the Wikipedia article. --TouchGnome 04:00, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Thief 3 criticisms...

Under Deadly Shadows it says "the use of "wall-crawling gloves" rather than rope arrows to climb to higher areas"

Actually rope arrows were planned for the game and there are still pieces of code in the engine for them, however there was a bug in the engine with rope arrows that made them not work quite right, so during crunch time rope arrows were scrapped as it was taking too long to properly impliment them. It was NOT done to "dumb it down" for console gamers.

And you can establish this claim as fact? Just because a developer says something doesn't mean it is true. Can you, for example, provide evidence that there was no reference to wall-crawling gloves in any of the source code prior to the very last months of development? As a software developer myself, this story seems very unlikely, as adding an entirely new mechanic at the very last minute seems at least as bad as fixing bugs in an existing one. This claim, therefore, seems just as likely to be a PR ploy to downplay the console-ization of the game which was a known criticism of the game during development. 24.6.99.30 01:02, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

It was said by Randy Smith or Jordan Thomas at one point (possibly others) and they have maintained this point long after the company closed. The devs are generally solid folks, many having long standing relationships with the fan community. There's not a lot of reason to paint them as liars over something like this. They freely admit the loadzones and the level sizes generally are a combination of the poorly optimised renderer and the Xbox's RAM space. Seems unlikely they'd bother to maintain some big conspiracy over rope arrows. Although they probably weren't implimented as late as suggested (but the devs have suggested that 'crunch time' on thief: DS last for two or three months), the climbing gloves don't work very well (can't go around corners) and have limited uses. Anyone who has played the game can see that rope arrows wouldn't fare much better, the levels being so small compared to the old games. No, the 'removed to dumb down the game' accusation is a bit of a stretch. MuJoCh 04:38, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

This bit was removed from the article for being POV:

The game was unanimously considered as the worst of the series mainly due to "selling out" to the console market, resulting in very "dumbed downed" gameplay (like Ion Storm's critically panned Deus Ex: Invisible War). It include the fact that the maps are much smaller compared to those from the original two games (to compensate for the hardware limitations of the Xbox), annoyance at the level designs (much more inferior than the previous games) that require players to repeatedly switch between 1st and 3rd person perspectives, and that the gameplay has been greatly simplified for the console market (such as the removal of the swordfighting system, and using "wall-crawling gloves" rather than climbing grappling hook-like "rope arrows" to higher areas).

AFAIK both Invisible War and Thief 3 have respectable scores on Gamerankings.com, they weren't "critically panned". Are you saying that because you disliked the games personally and want everyone else to hate them as much as you do?

Can someone source these so that this (or a cleaned up verion) can be put back in? There are those who have complained about such things.--DooMDrat 07:20, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

GameRankings.com is a console-oriented community site, with insecure voting systems. "Critically" refers to reputable reviewers attaching their names to their reviews. Also, were you looking at the scores for the PC version or the Xbox versions? Does GameRankings even distinguish between them? Thief 3 did receive the lowest review scores out of the series -- while it wasn't "panned" (it's still a good game), it was disappointing and thus, relative to the first two titles, received lots of criticism. It also remains true that Thief 3 is considered (by PC gamers who played the earlier installments) the least compelling of the three games because of the design compromises that were made for the Xbox. 24.6.99.30 00:51, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it ought to be left out entirely. ⟳ausa کui ^× 22:19, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

I just took this out too. I don't know if it's beyond saving though:

===Fanfiction===

Of course, the noirish universe of Thief is just as expandable as any other. This considered, it's not surprising that Thief had been a subject to lots of fanmade fictions including poems, short stories et cetera. Most notable is the full length-novel Correspondence Of Thieves, written by Steve Tremblay, Beate Gerwin, James Sterrett, Alexandria Thomson and Daniel Todd.

Many of the fan-made missions can be considered fanfictions, as they implement new aspects of the Thief universe as well as new sidequests/problems and personality traits/virtues for Garret - enrichening characteristics of both.

⟳ausa کui ^× 22:22, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Screenshots

I realize that Thief Deadly Shadows is of interest to a great number of people, but it think it's a bit unfair that the page does not have a single screenshot from Thief 1/2. Anyone cares to add some?Tani unit 04:28, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

• Be bold and do it yourself! (if you don't own the software, I could do a Thief 2 one if you give me some ideas). Cheers --Pak21 08:54, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

• I own both games so i thik i'll look into making some. Although some current screenshots will probably have to get removed in order not to clutter the page. Tani unit 16:32, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

• There's probably a very good reason for this, but why aren't each of the games assigned their own page? I'm sure this would make it easier to update, and far more information could be included. Krang 12:34, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Enemies

• I'm not all too familiar with encyclopedic guidlines on gaming articles, so someone is welcome to enlighten me - why is it that weapons and characters are ok, but enemies are a no-no? Tani unit 16:34, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

• I'd say its a combination of two points: firstly, I'm not entirely sure a listing of all the weapons in the game is particularly encyclopedic. Secondly, the list of weapons contains at least brief descriptions of them, while the enemies section was just a list of enemies in the game. Cheers --Pak21 23:11, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

• oh, i see. i was planning on adding descriptions later, but if the listing isn't entirely encyclopedic anyway than i guess it's a moot point Tani unit 23:50, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

• another thing, now that the enemy section is back in place: what are the little child-like robots that are encountered

in Thief 2 in Mechanist tower, and in the Soulforge? They seem to be invulnerable to any attack and just cower and run way. Tani unit 23:06, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't think they had an official name but the Thief community frequently called them Cherubs. 24.6.99.30 00:54, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

• The golden Robot boys, or Cherubs or what have you were inserted into the game just for psychological purposes to freak the player out, like one appearing out of nowhere after you read the New Scripture of the Master Builder at Angelwatch. Bloody freaked me out and it starts following you, so i just locked the little bugger in a room somewhere.

Anyway, there's no need for a enemy list, theres a great and extensive enemy discription here at the Keeper's Compound. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.92.168.165 (talk) 21:20, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

Factions

Waitaminit. Why is the Order of the Vine in the factions section? That's not a significant group in the series at all. It's only refered to once or twice and there's almost nothing to say they are connected to the pagans beyond the plants inference. Does this bit refer to T2X or what? It's all getting rather messy. MuJoCh 02:45, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

it's probably the same as Pagans.

Yeah, only the pagans aren't called The order of the Vine. They're called the Pagans (never mind that the Pagans aren't an Order of anything). We don't know anything about the Order of the Vine. MuJoCh 08:36, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Uh, the order of the Vine ARE the Pagans. It's a formal name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.92.168.164 (talk) 15:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

And where do you get that information from? MuJoCh 17:08, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Vine arrows

Did these stick to metal? My memory tells me they stuck to stone, but not to metal (as you can tell, I don't have my copy of the game handy at the moment). Cheers --Pak21 23:21, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

• vine arrows could stick to metal grating and wooden surfaces. Tani unit 23:43, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Voice Actors in Thief Series

Does anyone have a link to credits for the voice actors in Thief? "Benny" and another guard or two sound to me like actor Ciaran Hinds.....

Look in the games' entries at IMDb. --Goblin ^›talk 06:54, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Stephen Russell did a massive amount of voice acting for all 3 games in the Thief series, including, I believe, the loveable, drunk Benny. DavidGC 13:08, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Thieves' Highway

Currently the article claims that Dayport and/or Old Quarter are the Thieves' Highway. I've always understood the term as meaning the rooftops and similar byways of the City, rather than a particular district. Anyone able to confirm/correct? Cygnus360 22:03, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Two possibilities. A) The term refers to what it means in reality, low-lying rooftops that thieves would use to get around without fear of capture from the police, or B) Those areas are popular movement routes for the City's underground to move to and from connecting districts, and because of the amount of traffic that goes through, they're known as Highways by the Thieves. CABAL 10:52, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

In the games, 'Thieves Highway' generally refers to any rooftop areas where thieves and others who wish to avoid the City Watch can move about much easier. It isn't just limited to Dayport and that small section in Old Quarter. --T-Smith 01:14, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Removed Shalebridge from district list

Just wanted to justify that. It's never actually stated in the games that Shalebridge is actually a district in the city. There's debate going on about what is is exactly - some even think it might be the name of the actual bridge between Old Quarter and Auldale.

Also, the information supplied was completely wrong. The Shalebridge Cradle wasn't in 'Shalebridge' (even if there is such a district). It's clearly located in the Old Quarter. Just because something bares the name Shalebridge doesn't mean it's in 'Shalebridge'. For instance, there's a Shalebridge Road in Stonemarket. --T-Smith 01:22, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Assassins actually does mention Shalebridge in a list of City districs. Cygnus360 21:03, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

I just recently played through Assasins, I don't recall any mention of that. Could you post the mention, or possibly tell me where in the mission it is? --24.76.109.236 00:42, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

---

In Ramirez' room (I think, I just found the Papyrus in my inventory when checking now), you'll find a Papyrus you can pick up and bring about. It begins:

Raputo
Warden of North Quarter, Shalebridge, Newmarket, New Quarter.

Cygnus360 00:05, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I don't even have to replay the level to remember that. Can't believe I forgot it (it's down in the counting room, isn't it?). Once again, there has been discussion as to whether Shalebridge is a district or an actual bridge. I guess though that the specific quite you provided points more towards it being a district (unless it's mentioned anywhere in the games that all the bridges have actual names). --T-Smith 02:22, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone know if a thief 4 is thought of being made?

Thief 4 was in pre-production in Ion Storm prior to it's demise. However, after the company folded the project was never picked up by anyone. So as of this time no, there's no confirmation of any future Thief titles.

--T-Smith 18:25, 16 May 2006 (UTC)the thieves highway refers to the city's rooftops, where thieves can get to one place to another without running into any guards, (at least not as many asthey would if they were in the streets.

There is also a letter in The Sword, mentioning;

"A woman from Shalebridge aquitted of charges of robbery..."

-66.91.120.70 11:02, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I took out the entry on Shalebridge since everything about it was either wrong or pointless. The Eastport entry isn't much better (forgive me but I can't recall anything about Soulforge being in Eastport). All there is about most of these places comes from Deadly Shadows. Since we know the city is bigger than the places represented in T-DS it's all probably better off on that page. MuJoCh 05:36, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Concern about fancruft

First-off, I love Thief. Awesome series and I've played every inch of it. But some of this article just comes off sounding like fancruft. Do we really need to list the districts of the city, details on how the haunts sound or what potions are available?

I propose eliminating the equipment section and drastically cutting back the enemies and the city sections. Thoughts? --BradBeattie 00:01, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Disagree: First-off, I love Stargate and I've watched every episode. But some of the stuff just comes off sounding like fancruft. Do we really need a list of every Stargate episode including links to pages which contain a detailed synopsis of each and every one? Then there are pages that contain a List of Stargate planets and articles about Stargate devices with full pages on some of them such as the Stargate itself and Ring Transporters?

I propose deleting all those pages. While we're at it, Doctor Who could do with a work-over. There's lots of fancruft there we can get rid of... Thoughts?

While I'm sure your intentions are noble, that "fancruft" you so despise is a large part of what makes up Wikipedia. Removing it simply because it "is fancruft" is not a valid argument. Now, as to whether we "need" the information or not... Do we really need any of it? Should Wikipedia just be all about atoms and chemicals and Britney Spears? Actually, do we really need to know about Britney Spears? Wouldn't we be better off if we just deleted her article as well?

Now, if your argument was that the article was too long (which I agree with), then I'd propose it gets split off. Add enough text to the city section, throw in some images and you've got a complete Wikipedia article in and of itself. Do the same for the equipment and there you go. All we'd need here is a link to Main Article: Locations in the Thief Series (Computer Game). I personally think we need a much more compelling argument than "it's fancruft" and the vague notion that "it's not needed" before we start carving it all out. There are precedents for keeping the information in such an article about a computer game. I point to examples like List of Halo series characters and entire articles about specific Halo factions. That's all a part of WikiProject Halo (In fact I'm a bit surprised there's not a WikiProject Thief). Yay unto the Chicken 10:43, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll agree with you that some article sets contain a lot more detail than this one. We could easily split this article into a number of seperate ones (Locations in the Thief Series (Computer Game), Characters in the Thief Series (Computer Game), and Equipment in the Thief Series (Computer Game)), but something feels wrong to me there.

The first paragraph about the city is great, but listing the individual districts seems over the top. Mentioning the protagonist and the main antagonists (the Trickster, Karras and the Hag) would be sufficient for the characters section (spoiler tags of course). The equipment series doesn't need that level of detail.

I guess I just feel that articles on atoms and the hits of Britany Spears warrant articles, as does the awesome game that is Thief. It just feels as though we've gone too far when we list what spells Garrett can intercept, what exactly an invisibility potion does, and the weaknesses of each critter type. Should we have an article that details all of the items you can obtain in King's Quest?

On a side note, I feel that the King's Quest articles have a succinctness that we should strive for in the Thief articles. --BradBeattie 12:19, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

In an effort to reach compromise, I've moved the non-recurring characters to their individual games' pages. If this solution is good for both of us, we could go ahead and do it with enemies too. (bugbeasts in TDP, etc) --BradBeattie 06:38, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

It does make more sense for them to be mentioned in the article for the game in which they appear in. A giant list here (or on its own page) serves no-one if they're only found in one game. Yay unto the Chicken 06:54, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I can understand what you're saying but I'm trying to understand *why* you're saying it. So bear with me. You've said:

• but something feels wrong to me there.
• seems over the top
• doesn't need that level of detail.
• it just feels as though we've gone too far

It seems that what you've proposed is removing information because you feel that it's unwarranted in this article. It's too much. Being a strong believer in inclusionism, what I've proposed is keeping the information and instead splitting it off into it's own articles, so that it can then be added to. I've thought about this some more and gone back through the article thinking about what information would be taken out and what would be done with it. While I've been thinking about that, I've been looking at policy and other articles to see what happens in similar situations. I ran into two problems.

1. One question I asked myself was "Why does the Stargate get its own article but a Burrick doesn't"? The answer is that there is not enough information to warrant an article on its own. For example, trying to flesh out "Burricks" beyond one sentence will be difficult at best as the information simply is not available anywhere from "official" (read: canon) sources either within the games themselves or from elsewhere. So lack of information is a problem.
2. The second issue was the policy on what Wikipedia is not. Most of the information is of a "walkthrough" nature with regard to how it has been written. This conflicts with the guideline that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information point 8 which states "Wikipedia articles should not include instruction - This includes tutorials, walk-throughs, video game guides". For example, "Tree Beasts only take damage from fire arrows, mines and sword strikes at certain positions." There is no mention of what a Tree Beast "is", it's origins or its purpose beyond those mentioned in relation to its purpose as a game mechanic, hence the walkthrough or "video game guide" nature.

If I try to flesh some of this information out, I run into problem one: More information about Tree Beasts simply does not exist. Stargate has some hundred episodes, books and guides from which to garner information about the Stargate device. Thief has 3 computer games with barely any information about Tree Beasts at all (in fact Tree Beasts only appear in Thief III if my memory hasn't failed me). So, if we were to split off the articles we would have no more information to add. As for equipment, out of interest I decided to see what Doom said about its weapons. It has a single paragraph under the heading "Gameplay" which simply lists them, including power-ups.

My concern was that the article would lose information. An article on the Thief series wouldn't seem right without a mention of Burricks, the importance of rope arrows or a mention of Auldale. That information can be kept if we simply summarise the current information and cut it down into a few paragraphs as opposed to a series of attempted lists which will "never seem quite right" due to their lack of information. That's really all we need isn't it? And I think that's exactly what you're proposing. Ignore my original opposition. You're right. Yay unto the Chicken 06:53, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

A small note, but Tree Beasts first appeared in Thief II, in "Trail of Blood" just prior to the end of the mission. Unlike their Deadly Shadows counterparts which patrolled, in Thief II they sat around and pretended to be real trees until you got too close. This is the only area in the game they appear though. --T-Smith 15:16, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I guess if there's no further input on the matter, I'll go ahead and clean up the extraneous details. --BradBeattie 10:12, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

im mostly neutral on the other topics but the city districts should not be deleted- its an organized listing of elements which are not small strategic details but considerable parts of the storyline of the game Urukagina

Across the series the City districts are very vaguely identified and certainly not clear or consistent. Making a list of them as such merely makes the entry overly "Deadly Shadows"-centric, since that particular game spells out a few of them. So most of that detail is better left to that game's page. This entry ought to be about things common to the series so a general description of the City seems more appropriate MuJoCh 13:10, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

The first two games also spelled out a few locations as well in documents, and maps you had access to through the games. Its not like Deadly Shadows was the only game to have a map, or explain various locations...66.91.120.70 08:21, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

I've used the suggested idea above to create Locations in the Thief Series (Computer Game) and linked to it. If anyone can help clean it up so that fits Wikipedian standards, to avoid deletion, I'd appreciate it. I saw no reason to split the others off as they are limited to begin with, whereas with locations there is plenty of information that can be added to it from the series as a whole, especially to include information about locations outside the city. Splintercell007 08:31, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Removed part about Garrett in reoccuring chars

Specifically this quote: "(Near the end of Thief II Karras claimed that he had made the eye, but whether this is true or if it was just Karras boasting is unknown.)" Specifically because even if he was boasting, there was no evidence given that Karas didn't create Garrett's eye anywho. Shadowrun 16:15, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

A guide to recognising your Keepers

OK so it's not really, I just like the title. But I notice a habit around these pages of calling every Keeper that Garrett deals with throughout the series Keeper Artemus. This is incorrect. Almost none of these guys are named and there is then nothing in Thief:DS to retroactively connect Artemus to any of them. The only interesting connection is that the Keeper at the beginning and the very end of Thief: The Dark Project and Keeper Artemus from Thief:DS are voiced by the same person : Nate Wells (or at least Nate Wells putting on the same voice). The Keepers that rescue Garrett from the Trickster in the third act of the Dark Project are clearly different voices. The Keeper that Garrett deals with the most in Thief 2 isn't the Artemus voice either. The two Keepers that visit Garrett and take him to hear the interpreter in Thief 2 sound the same as the pair who rescue him in Thief 1 (probably voiced by Dan Thron and Ian Vogel). Indeed Nate Wells appears to be providing the voice for Keeper Orland in Thief 2.
I suggest the fiction be allowed to speak for itself on these things. The most we ought to do is point out where inferences are often made (like some of the Artemus voice inference) without actually stating it as fact. I'd put a note about the voice of Artemus recurring elsewhere in the series in the DS article and that's it. All other references to him ought to be removed (and will be if I have anything to do with it). Any thoughts? MuJoCh 10:31, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah all the Keepers from the first games (everything before Deadly Shadows specifically) aren't Artemis, though I wouldn't doubt that the first one seen in 1 is. I find it a little cool that my Brother-inlaw's website is used as an external link here (Keeper Compound). Anyways back on topic, I guess the lore/fiction of the game doesn't clearly state anything about this, then again, I may be wrong, it's been quite some time before I've played 1 and an even longer time since 2. Still, there's no reason to state those keepers are all the same person, it's just ridiculous. IronCrow 00:13, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Thief spinoffs

There have been at least two mobile phone games based on the Thief brand, which we should probably put on this page somewhere. The ones I know about were made by someone called Iomo games. After a short hunt I can't find much info about them and that's only for the latest Deadly Shadows derived title. Does anyone have more info? MuJoCh 09:42, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

okie dokie. I found some puny info on these games. One is Thief: Constantine's Sword http://web.archive.org/web/20011202200912/http://www.iomo.co.uk/ , which is a bit of a nethack looking thing. I can't get any firm dates on it, but it seems to have come out around late 1999. I know nothing about mobile phones , though I suspect the phones you play this sort of game on are long superceded.

The other one is a straight tie in to Thief: Deadly Shadows, also by iomo games. It's more of a 2d platform game with sneaky bits. Iomo seem to have been absorbed by their publisher, Infospace games, and no longer have a web site. But the Infospace site barely acknowledges the game exists last time I looked (and that's in a press release pdf. of their upcoming releases. for one line) so all I have is this review http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=65027

I haven't a clue how to work this into the article. MuJoCh 08:33, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

There are also some books by a Russian Fantasy writer Aleksey Pehov, featuring Garrett as the main character. Also he is in another world and some equipment changed, this is the same master thief Garrett we all love and know.

The books are "Siala Chronicles" series - "Creeping in shadows", "Janga with shadows", "Blizzard of shadows", as well as the first novel in a new series "Wind Seekers".

I may be a bit wrong in English names of the books

Info in Russian can be found here http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Пехов http://pehov.com/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.155.89.221 (talk) 08:21, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

New Thief lcations page

I've used the suggested idea above to create Locations in the Thief Series (Computer Game) and linked to it. If anyone can help clean it up so that fits Wikipedian standards, to avoid deletion, I'd appreciate it.--Splintercell007 05:42, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I've added citations to the location article, and expanded the introduction.Splintercell007 07:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Note that someone tossed the page up for deletion on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/City (Thief), if anyone wants to get into the discussion.Splintercell007 17:32, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Thief Gaming Wiki

I added a link to the newly created thief gaming wiki at wikia.com.
All the fancruft and other things that shouldn't be on wikipedia can go there without a problem, that's what it's for, it's a gaming wiki. Sxerks (talk) 05:16, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Thief Gold boxcover.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 02:33, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

MODs and total conversions

Since this is of great interest to many people, major MODs should be listed. Also there are project to implement a Thief-like game in another game engine, like Thievery UT, Nightblade and I believe there was another one. These should be listed or an article Thief-inspired games should be created and linked.--84.178.117.137 (talk) 06:21, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Well you did forget the two major ones :). There is Thief 2X which is a fan-made entire new thief game. 13 Levels, new animations, new cut scenes, dialogue, models, etc. There is also the Darkmod which is a total conversion of the doom 3 engine to allow people to create thief inspired missions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.111.222.31 (talk) 03:33, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:TDPgarret.png

The image Image:TDPgarret.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
• That this article is linked to from the image description page.

The following images also have this problem:

• Image:Thief The Dark Project boxcover.jpg
• Image:Thief II boxcover.jpg

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --03:40, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Thief 4 cancelled?

I see it's no longer listed on the Eidos website (main, or US sub-site), as the WP page claims. Does anyone have any further info? --Kickstart70TC 23:45, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Canceled? No way. Well its still on the Eidos Games page, and its under development for sure. -- Tom Jenkins ^(reply) 01:30, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

External Links

The addition of the Thief wiki at Wikia, as per Wikipedia:EL#What should be linked #3 ...accurate material that cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to amount of detail .

Any logical objections?--Sxerks (talk) 04:05, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

WP:ELNO: Links to open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors. I see no such wiki. Rehevkor ✉ 13:20, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

I've seen the EL Links to open wikis argument about a million times now. Unfortunately for your attempt at an argument substantial isn't defined. And Wikipedia:EL#What should be linked #3 overrides it. Also "I see no such wiki" is a personal opinion in which you have not expounded as to why you feel that way. Also COI on you since you removed the link.--Sxerks (talk) 14:47, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

It's your personal opinion that it is. Do you know what a conflict of interest is? It's acting on something when you have an interest in a subject, such as being a bureaucrat on a wiki and trying to add that link to Wikipedia. I have nothing to do with said wiki. Let's compare it to the one wiki I can think of that's generally accepted as an external link, Memory Alpha. Does the Thief wiki have a "substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors" link Memory Alpha? If you contest the policy on Wikis as links, take it to the relevant talk page. Cheers. Rehevkor ✉ 15:16, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

It's not my opinion that it is accurate and encyclopedic, it is fact. Second, I do know what COI is, I was not referring to your relation to the wiki, but to your edit and your opinion on this talk page. Thirdly, you are incapable of defending your "I see no such wiki" statement. Fourthly, this sentence doesn't make any scene Does the Thief wiki have a "substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors" link Memory Alpha?, are you a native English speaker? perhaps you meant like instead of link, either way, comparing to other wikis is irrelevant, and a logical fallacy used to sidestep a lost argument.

And lastly, I will be contesting the EL guideline, as I have already researched and planned to do so.--Sxerks (talk) 16:22, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Opinion is not a conflict of interest. "Accurate and encyclopedic" is never a "fact", even Wikipedia itself can't claim that as a fact. And I don't need to defend myself, the burden is on you to prove it's a viable link but so far you have given no such evidence, just an opinion. And yes I am a native English speaker thank you, you have cunningly spotted what we in England call a "typo", well done. And no, I used Memory Alpha an example of what is currently accepted here, and the fact you consider this an argument suggests you're assuming bad faith, as you have been warned about adding links to Wikis before, I suggested you take the issue here so you could gain a consensus of adding the link or not, not to argue with you. And just because it's a guideline doesn't mean it should be ignored, it's collection of agreed upon factors based on policy, why, in this case, shouldn't we follow it? It's bad practice to ignore something just because you don't agree with it. What is your issue with it, beyond suggesting your wiki is not a viable link anyway? Also, why do you cite WP:EL when you feel supports your link, but disregard it when it doesn't? Rehevkor ✉ 19:27, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:EL#What should be linked #3 does NOT override the EL:NO. To the contrary, EL:NO overrides #3. Also stating "It's not my opinion that it is accurate and encyclopedic, it is fact" is simply absurd. Open wikis almost never should be linked, and this one fails easily. Additionally Sxerks, you have a clear conflict of interest so you can offer opinions but you should not engage in any editing regarding this wiki. 2005 (talk) 00:22, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

First off, Adding links to a site you have a COI is an absolute no-no. If you look at http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/Special:RecentChanges, this wiki definitely fails as both an external link and a reliable source. Since there is so little editorial oversight there can be no guarantee that anything on that site is reliable. Triplestop x3 21:46, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

City areas

Perhaps we should add a section about the areas in the City and what they are like, and their impact on the games. For some reason I recall there being a section like that on the Deadly Shadows page, but I checked and it isn't there.-- Barkjon  complaints here! 20:31, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

There was a section on it, but that is a bit outside the scope of a WP article, therefore its only maintained at TDS's page on the Dark Wiki. -- Tom Jenkins ^(reply) 10:24, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Mention of Postal

Is a comparison to Postal really necessary to exemplify "several small neighborhood maps connected by load zones" ? I don't think that game is exactly the kind of thing you'd want to compare to anything for fear of getting into a different discussion... Especially if we're just wanting to give another example of the area/zone implementation. 38.117.247.14 (talk) 20:24, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

File:Thief garrett screenshot TDS.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Thief garrett screenshot TDS.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: Wikipedia files with no non-free use rationale as of 4 May 2012 What should I do? Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page. If the image is non-free then you may need to provide a fair use rationale If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used. If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Deletion Review To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Thief garrett screenshot TDS.jpg) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 16:35, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Garrett's article

Garrett (character) (just a stub). --Niemti (talk) 10:08, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Viktoria (character) too. --Niemti (talk) 11:03, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Citation

The very first citation is a dead link.--99.98.180.79 (talk) 21:47, 29 March 2013 (UTC)