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This is where the Did you know section on the main page, its policies, and its processes can be discussed.

Destruction of cultural heritage during the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip

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@Crisco 1492, Richard Nevell, and Piotrus: I have concerns about whether this meets our WP:NPOV requirement. Also @Personisinsterest: who did the GA review. Frankly, when a reviewer writes The destruction of cultural heritage in Gaza is a really important part of what’s happening right now, and it’s kind of overlooked. I’m glad people are doing this it leads me to wonder if they are applying NPOV as rigorously as they should be. RoySmith (talk) 13:46, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was just looking for stuff to say honestly. Personisinsterest (talk) 17:03, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think there's something inherently wrong with being happy about the existence of an article that one considers informative and educational, and I can't help but find it a little absurd to impugn the quality of a review on the grounds that a reviewer complimented the creator. I like libraries and 19th-century American history and want both to appear more on Wikipedia, and I don't think that renders me incapable of doing decent reviews of 19th-century librarian biographers (I use this personal example because I have done such a GA review). Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 02:08, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm happy to discuss any concerns, but I should say that I've got a long train journey this evening and another tomorrow, and am busy between 9am and 5pm (UK time) so I can't guarantee a rapid reply.
We do of course need to uphold NPOV and I appreciate that ARBPIA articles are contentious. Is the concern about the hook, the article, or the topic area and its generally contentious nature (or a combination)? Richard Nevell (talk) 18:15, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Some detailed comments
Richard Nevell, some thoughts after looking through the article. There are parts that seem extraneous to the core topic, and a few other changes that could be made which might help address concerns. The "destruction of intangible cultural heritage" mentioned in the lead is not covered or explained in the body, which seems to cover only tangible heritage. The "cultural genocide" is also not covered in the body, and the mention of looting in a paragraph about the airstrike campaign seems misplaced (looting seems a minor consideration compared to everything else, and the source gives it only a couple of mentions). The displacement of people and destruction of residential areas seems oddly placed so prominently in the lead, as neither is directly cultural heritage. The "Cultural heritage is part of civilian infrastructure" sentence as used in the lead and background does not make sense as written and placed both times; it is not a statement about history or meaning, but about whether it should be a target during a war (the original quote is already covered in the International response section). The third paragraph in Background seems to not be about the topic but Cultural heritage in general, and could be removed. The mention of "Nazi persecution of the Jews" feels pointy and I can't verify it in the source. There are two quotes given prominence, and neither seems to add significant understanding. The inline UN experts quote similarly mostly restates already known information. The Events section seems to be organised by topic, and this could be strengthened, for example the fourth paragraph seems to be summarising damage to religious sites, but religious sites are also included in the seventh and tenth paragraphs. The Quran burning is covered twice in two consecutive paragraphs. The List of sites might be better as its own separate section, and the "Date Constructed" column does not appear to be in the source. The Israeli razing of cemeteries and necroviolence against Palestinians See also should be shifted to the body, piping "identified sixteen cemeteries" as is done in the hook and lead would make it more relevantly accessible to readers. On the DYK, I would have taken ALT1 over ALT0, as ALT0 seems a disconnected list whereas ALT1 has a more specific focus. CMD (talk) 01:33, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Chipmunkdavis: Thank you for those comments. I don't have time to address them properly now, but will do so this evening. Richard Nevell (talk) 07:13, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Chipmunkdavis: I've broken your points down below to make it easier to reply inline. I've tried to explain the reasoning behind some of the choices. It's a bit long, so might need to be collapsed.
The "destruction of intangible cultural heritage" mentioned in the lead is not covered or explained in the body, which seems to cover only tangible heritage.
That’s a good point. Intangible heritage is mentioned in the body as a component of cultural heritage, but is not fully addressed. In part this is because the loss of intangible heritage is harder to quantify than tangible heritage such as buildings, but I have added some text explicitly addressing ICH. If that’s insufficient I’m happy to remove ICH from the lead.
The "cultural genocide" is also not covered in the body, and the mention of looting in a paragraph about the airstrike campaign seems misplaced (looting seems a minor consideration compared to everything else, and the source gives it only a couple of mentions).
Though the term isn’t mentioned, my thinking was that in the 'International response' section the mention of South Africa’s case in the International Court of Justice and the destruction of cultural heritage being part of that was enough. On reflection, I can see that there is some disconnect so I have now covered that in the 'International response' section.
The displacement of people and destruction of residential areas seems oddly placed so prominently in the lead, as neither is directly cultural heritage.
I believe that the fact that half of the buildings in Gaza have been damaged or destroyed as a result of the conflict is important context. If that isn’t included, the article would be presenting the destruction of cultural heritage in a vacuum, and the silence could imply that no other buildings or structures were damaged. With that information included, it is logical to me to note the consequence that people have been displaced, especially as this is related to the inability to access the region and carry out on the ground assessments. The destruction of cultural heritage is part of the wider destruction, not isolated from it, so in my opinion it belongs in the lead.
Half the buildings being damaged is contextual, "leaving residential areas devastated" is an emotively worded repetition of that, and that is not a strong relevant point regarding displacement. It is also a very dubious proposition that a reader will read the lead and come away with the impression that this war was a selective targeting of various cultural sites.
I have removed that phrase from the lead while retaining the bit about the extent of damage and displacement. Richard Nevell (talk) 22:10, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The "Cultural heritage is part of civilian infrastructure" sentence as used in the lead and background does not make sense as written and placed both times; it is not a statement about history or meaning, but about whether it should be a target during a war (the original quote is already covered in the International response section).
It is perhaps not needed in the lead so I have removed it. My thinking has been that the statement that cultural heritage is part of civilian infrastructure in the same way that hospitals, transport networks, and energy infrastructure would show that it has value to society. It seems that may not have been successful, and as the quote is used a third time in the 'International response' section, I have removed it from 'Cultural heritage in Gaza'.
The third paragraph in Background seems to not be about the topic but Cultural heritage in general, and could be removed.
With the background section, I was likely to err on the side of including more information than needed. I think it is important to explain what cultural heritage is and why it is important. The first is addressed in the opening sentence of the section, and the third paragraph addresses the second angle. That cultural heritage is linked to identity – shaping it and being shaped by it – is an important part of understanding it. I think that the reader would be worse off not having the fuller explanation of paragraph 3.
Perhaps that might apply to the first sentence, but the second sentence is about heirlooms, which is not covered in the article, and the most applicable interpretation of the third sentence is that this war is creating more cultural identity, which is possibly true but does not feel like an encyclopaedic point to make.
@Chipmunkdavis: It is not solely about heirlooms, but material culture broadly - though objects are of course part of that and indeed cultural heritage. I have reworked the second sentence to hopefully make this clearer. As for the third sentence of the same paragraph, I included an example to make it less abstract and think that removing the example would not be an improvement. Richard Nevell (talk) 22:10, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That change is not in the source, which is about "residues of a universe that is no longer", and is based on research in Jordan. This veers close to WP:coatrack, and background not about the subject in question (cultural heritage in Gaza) is better covered through the main article link. CMD (talk) 00:16, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The ethnographic research conducted in Jordan was with Palestinians living in exile. The point is that heritage and material relates to memory and identity, points which help the reader understand the importance of heritage. Richard Nevell (talk) 23:58, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The mention of "Nazi persecution of the Jews" feels pointy and I can't verify it in the source.
At some point I had access to the 2018 edition of Malpas, but can't find where that was. Once I find it I will check against what the source says so that I can answer fully. I really should have made a note.
If it is a different version the link will need to be changed, the current gbooks page 199 is part of a list of chapter references.
@CMD I have updated the ISBN to the version of the book I have been able to access. The Google Books preview clipped the page leaving out quite a lot, and oddly the preview didn't even include the keywords which had me second guessing. The relevant section reads (in part anyway since the relevant part is longer) "It is notable that the obliteration or destruction of places has commonly been used as a tool of genocide and as a weapon of war. Indeed, it was so used by the Romans ... It was used by the Nazis against Jewish communities and against communities in occupied territories that offered resistance to such occupation". Richard Nevell (talk) 00:08, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are two quotes given prominence, and neither seems to add significant understanding.
Jean-Baptiste Humbert quote: this is included because it adds perspective. ie: cultural heritage is important, but not as important as essentials, therefore Gaza is not able to invest in its cultural heritage. That is important for understanding the region' cultural heritage.
Mariam Shah quote: this quote addresses the intangible cultural heritage of these sites, without using those terms. It talks about tradition and symbolism, which are important to understanding heritage. These places are part of life and history in Gaza. It could perhaps be reworded, but I think it's a good quote and any summary of that sentiment that I could come up with would be much poorer.
I don't see those interpretations at all, both are statements that are pretty universally applicable. The priority issues raised by Jean-Baptiste Humbert apply to every government, even rich and unoccupied countries will choose food and education over investing in heritage. The Mariam Shah quote is a statement that would apply to any reasonably dates churches and mosques.
These quotes are explicitly about Gaza and while the dynamic about, for example, investing in food and education over heritage might not be unique to Gaza it remains helpful to understand cultural heritage in the region. And religious buildings being symbolic is not unique, but that's also useful context to understand why their destruction is significant; it speaks directly to the consequences of the conflict. Richard Nevell (talk) 22:10, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are many quotes that could be about Gaza, but both of these are universally applicable statements (not just regional). Pulling them out reads as odd, especially when there is already a background section. CMD (talk) 00:16, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As these quotes are about Gaza I don't think there is a problem with the content. Yes, there are other places that make decisions about investing in things such as healthcare or energy infrastructure over heritage sites but not many places do that in the context of "the crushing that has been inflicted by the occupying forces over the past fifty years". That difference is worth highlighting. Richard Nevell (talk) 23:52, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The inline UN experts quote similarly mostly restates already known information.
Do you mean the bit which reads "The foundations of Palestinian society are being reduced to rubble, and their history is being erased"?
Yes, it's essentially an emotively worded repetition of the article topic.
The UN quote is worth having because it is the UN and they are a major NGO. UNESCO is mentioned earlier but that is in a different context and a branch of the overall organisation. The quote has a similar gist to that from Middle East Studies Association, so I have summarised the MESA quote to make it less repetitive. Richard Nevell (talk) 22:10, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Easily stated more concisely with a "has condemned the destruction" or similar formulation. CMD (talk) 00:16, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If that's the level of detail to aim for, it's possible to merge the sentence with the previous one about Icon, which I've now done. Richard Nevell (talk) 23:52, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Events section seems to be organised by topic, and this could be strengthened, for example the fourth paragraph seems to be summarising damage to religious sites, but religious sites are also included in the seventh and tenth paragraphs.
This section doesn't have a rigid structure, which perhaps isn’t helpful. It is a bit chronological, and a bit thematic, so some similar sites are groups (eg: libraries) but I still tried to follow a chronological narrative. It's not straightforward since reports sometimes don't specify the date on which an event occurred. My plan was to have a rough chronology but some events did group naturally. With the library example, a list of dates on which the libraries were destroyed would have been repetitive so I opted for a summary. I am open to restructuring this section so that it has a more clearly defined thematic or chronological approach if the current one is felt not to be effective.
One structure or the other is perhaps more helpful. If there is a mix, it may be best to start with topics and then add chronology; there may be enough detail for subsections on religious buildings, libraries, etc.
I'll experiment and see how it turns out. Richard Nevell (talk) 22:10, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Quran burning is covered twice in two consecutive paragraphs.
These are two separate instances of Quran burning – one in Rafah in May and the other at the Bani Saleh Mosque reported in August. The problem with a chronological rather than thematic approach is that this may appear like duplication.
Perhaps add the Bani Saleh Mosque is in the north, to help clear this up further.
Done - along with noting that Rafah is in the south. Richard Nevell (talk) 22:10, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The List of sites might be better as its own separate section, and the "Date Constructed" column does not appear to be in the source.
I've changed the heading from level 3 to 2, since having it as its own section rather than a subsection sounds like a good idea. I'll work on adding sources for the construction dates.
And the dates are now sourced. Richard Nevell (talk) 23:54, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Israeli razing of cemeteries and necroviolence against Palestinians See also should be shifted to the body, piping "identified sixteen cemeteries" as is done in the hook and lead would make it more relevantly accessible to readers.
Good suggestion, and done. Richard Nevell (talk) 21:45, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Richard Nevell Sorry for the delay, some replies above. CMD (talk) 14:10, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I understand how that could look bias. And it’s because I am. I am pro-Palestinian, as I have said before. And it was an overlooked part of the war. But I checked it. I checked to see if it was reliable and neutral. And when it explicitly stated the destruction was genocide, I toned it down. Personisinsterest (talk) 18:57, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This topic is inherently subjective, since it talks about problematic behavior of a particular group (to keep it general). As such, there are always going to be some NPOV concerns lingering around. However, the article is stable, not NPOV tagged, and I did not notice any red flags in my reading. Unless we rule out any controversial topic as DYK-ineligible, I don't see what else we can do here. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:51, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The use of a holocaust analogy should be a significant red flag, there is a lot that can be done here. CMD (talk) 05:36, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's clear there is controversy here. I've swapped this out to Prep 3 so we've got time to work on it. RoySmith (talk) 14:20, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds sensible to me as this probably isn't a discussion that would be helped by time pressure. Richard Nevell (talk) 18:08, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DYKToolsBot not working

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RoySmith, DYKToolsBot hasn't updated in two weeks. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:35, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the note, I'll take a look. RoySmith (talk) 15:37, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting. There's a cron job that's been running for a bit over 14 days, which is probably what's holding everything up (as I understand it, cron won't kick off a new job while an old one is still running). I'm not sure what got it wedged, but I've manually kicked off a run and that seems to be working fine so I'll probably just kill the stuck job and see what happens. RoySmith (talk) 16:01, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As an aside on this, I'd really like to see more joint custody of all the bits and pieces that make DYK run. I hadn't looked at this stuff for over a year and it took me some time to figure out how it all worked again. If I got run over by a bus and somebody had to pick it up from scratch, it would have been even harder. The more we're all familiar with all the moving pieces, the more resilient we all are to roving homicidal busses. RoySmith (talk) 21:01, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Speaking of, just noticed that GalliumBot is down, if theleekycauldron isn't already aware. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 08:36, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@AirshipJungleman29: he's back! (i think.) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 01:30, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Did you know nominations/Luo Shiwen

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Hi there. Would it be possible to request a second pair of eyes at Template:Did you know nominations/Luo Shiwen? The reviewer, Buidhe and myself disagree about the use of CCP-related sources and its potential impact on article neutrality.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 18:20, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Did you know/Preparation area 1

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George Frederick Cumming Smillie

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I gave it a proper lead, but in terms of DYK criteria, this is fine. (Apologies for the delay in me doing these, I hit a wall a couple of days ago.)--Launchballer 11:51, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Beijing Hanhai

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I see no problems with this. I note that part of the hook is in a footnote, which I personally have no problem with but noting here anyway.--Launchballer 12:34, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Did you know/Preparation area 2

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The True Record

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How interesting is the hook without knowing what May Fourth Movement is?--Launchballer 09:42, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That hook checks out.--Launchballer 10:19, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can't see anything wrong with the article.--Launchballer 10:34, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Destruction of cultural heritage during the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip (3)

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2022 Bahrain Grand Prix

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Conspiracy theories about the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

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  • Given that the hook would hit the main page at 16:00 EST on US election day, I feel like it should be delayed another day at least due to the involvement of several current candidates. Thoughts? — Chris Woodrich (talk) 18:46, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Manhood: The Masculine Virtues America Needs

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I thought the election date was the fifth. These are scheduled to hit the main page at 16:00 on the sixth.--Launchballer 19:11, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Did you know/Preparation area 3

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Cock Destroyers +1

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I can't touch this because I wrote the articles, but would "that The Cock Destroyers (pictured) released a "gloriously queer" sex education video for Netflix before hosting Slag Wars: The Next Destroyer" flow better?--Launchballer 13:14, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For your information, I only created the article to fill a redlink at Megan Barton-Hanson since the GA reviewer was asking about it, there is another hook on the nomination that censors the name as "porn stars", and that Fucking Cunt hook received absolutely no blowback whatsoever at WP:ERRORS (and only rocked up at WT:DYK after the nominator objected to it being run too late). If cunt didn't cause offense then, cock shouldn't cause offense now.--Launchballer 21:48, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dundonald House

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My count is 439 bytes before expansion, 2219 bytes after expansion. That is narrowly above x5. --Soman (talk) 19:32, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Did you know nominations/It's OK I'm OK

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Resolved

I would like to move towards resolution here, but I need someone to take a look at ALT1 and my proposed rewrite of that hook in my review, and if possible, present it in a proposed new hook form or offer up other ones. Nominator is currently inactive. Thank you. Viriditas (talk) 21:57, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My DYKs

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Hi, can someone please take a look at Template:Did you know nominations/Dog (2nd nomination) and Template:Did you know nominations/Fishing cat, and either promote or fail them? It's been weeks now. Wolverine X-eye (talk to me) 07:45, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are currently a few dozen approved hooks nominated before yours, so it'll probably be a while yet. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 08:30, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Precisely. We're at one set a day, which means eight hooks per day. Since these are not biographies, nor are they American, they will likely not be bypassed for balance purposes; they'll probably end up being promoted more quickly than more common classes of article nominated at the same time.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 10:55, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It often takes about four weeks on average between nomination and promotion (my guess) and about a week in a prep/queue. Both articles were nominated two weeks ago and DYKs usually don't get promoted within that period (unless it has to run on a special day). For comparison, my noms get reviewed either within a week, or after a month. JuniperChill (talk) 13:31, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DYKUpdateBot is down; midnight update delayed

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Regrettably, DYKUpdateBot didn't run at midnight; normally, the update of the main page and all the other moves and credits would have been completed by now.

I have notified Shubinator on his talk page (I initially noticed that DYKHousekeepingBot was down, and discovered that DYKUpdateBot also seemed to be down), in the hopes that he can start the bot soon. In the meantime, we will need an admin to do a manual update: pinging @DYK admins: in the hopes that one of you can step in. Thank you very much. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:10, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll do the adminny stuff, if someone else can handle the credits and tags :) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 00:17, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
DYKUpdateBot came back online a few minutes after BlueMoonset's message, and had already updated when your update began. Probably best to undo your update? Otherwise one set was on DYK for just 5 minutes. Shubinator (talk) 00:20, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, just undid. My bad! theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 00:22, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Great, looks good now! Shubinator (talk) 00:24, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Did you know/Preparation area 4

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He Jianshi

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If this is where I think it is, ("He believed that the Chinese opera could be used to cultivate support for the revolutionaries,[2] and in 1906 he had – together with Pan Dawei, Lai Yitao, and Liang Juexian – established the Youshijie Drama Society in Guangzhou to advance the revolutionary interest, with He as its manager.[9]"), then it probably ought to spell out that the society was used for that purpose. I can't help you with Selfish.--Launchballer 13:52, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is "to advance the revolutionary interest" not sufficiently explicit? Shame about SELF-ISH... if Prep 3 doesn't get a third set of eyes, I may have to go IAR to avoid a failed update, and it looks like this prep may follow the day after.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 14:02, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My beef is that I'm not convinced opera and drama are necessarily the same thing (I did drama in school and there was no opera in it). If push comes to shove, Fijian Labour Corps in prep 7 checks out and can be swapped but let's see if someone else chips in first, and I'll look for another hook in prep if needed.--Launchballer 14:19, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I understand that, but the source is clear that the "Drama society" was the name of an opera troupe. "Sun Yat-sen promoted the democratic revolution and regarded drama as an important means [for revolution]. He Jianshi responded positively. In 1906, he, Pan Dawei, Lai Yitao, Liang Juexian and others established the "Youshijie Drama Society" in the Baoan Charity Hall at Huangsha Tiyun Bridge in Guangzhou. He served as the general supervisor and carried out the work of improving Cantonese opera." The spoken-word form of drama, huaju, hadn't arrived until a few years earlier and didn't become mainstream until the 1930s. If you're still uncomfortable with this, He Jianshi's anti-American activities are well documented, including in English, and there was an ALT about not carrying William Howard Taft that could be used. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 14:36, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, that's fine. This is good to go.--Launchballer 14:46, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SELF-iSH

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As we have another nudity in music videos hook in the next set I suggest kicking this one back anyway per the previous section.--Launchballer 11:25, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Morgan695, Explicit, Kimikel, and Koopastar: Pinging around so there are no surprises.--Launchballer 13:07, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Margaret Pargeter

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  • ... that Margaret Pargeter was one of the most widely read authors in Britain in 1986?

The data in the source is from 1985 (the article was published in March 1986, so it can't provide information for that year). I'm also not convinced about the data being bundled by genre (the most popular books were romance novels by five authors including Pargeter, but it doesn't give any actual data for each one) but that's not objectively wrong because of the dreaded "one of"... Black Kite (talk) 00:21, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming it checks out, "that Margaret Pargeter wrote 49 novels between 1975 and 1986 and published her 50th in 1997" would be a good hook. All references to it in prose are cited to the 1997 novel though. Also, pinging @Cielquiparle, ResonantDistortion, and Hilst:.--Launchballer 10:41, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I quite like your alt hook. – 🌻 Hilst (talk | contribs) 11:01, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Launchballer Thanks for the suggestion. Here's my tweak (to make it less "pat" so that there is still something to click for):
  • ... that Margaret Pargeter published 49 novels within 11 years, followed by her 50th novel 11 years later?
Cielquiparle (talk) 20:04, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is this a reliable source? It doesn't appear to be user generated, and it cites your alt hook apart from the fact it says the 50th was published in 1998 (suspect that might be the US release date, as all other sources say 1997). For someone who was supposedly such a widely-read author, there is very little about her work - I can't even find a proper obituary. Black Kite (talk) 14:19, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The fact she was a volunteer fire-fighter in the ARP during WWII might be a decent hook as well. Black Kite (talk) 14:22, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Per [1], basic members can update the site. So no, not an RS.--Launchballer 14:42, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Older nominations needing DYK reviewers

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The previous list was archived about half an hour ago, so I've created a new list of 31 nominations that need reviewing in the Older nominations section of the Nominations page, covering everything through October 1. We have a total of 321 nominations, of which 135 have been approved, a gap of 186 nominations that has increased by 16 over the past 6 days. Thanks to everyone who reviews these and any other nominations!

More than one month old

Other nominations

Please remember to cross off entries, including the date, as you finish reviewing them (unless you're asking for further review), even if the review was not an approval. Please do not remove them entirely. Many thanks! BlueMoonset (talk) 15:18, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am around and will perhaps take a look at a few nominations by tomorrow. Regards, Aafi (talk) 14:30, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Did you know/Preparation area 5

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Flag of Falcón +1

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@Soman: I added a {{cn}} tag to the Flag article as I don't see anywhere that "23 states of Venezuela" is sourced. Also, what makes it notable, given that there are only two references in the article?--Launchballer 12:04, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't get the {cn} tag issue. Are you disputing that Falcon is a state or that Venezuela has 23 states? Or that Falcon has a flag? And for notability, we generally don't test notability of state and national flags. --Soman (talk) 23:17, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm saying I think there should be a cite for Venezuela having 23 states, yes. (Also, not really a DYK issue, but regarding "having large whitespace in bottom is not good for readibility", I couldn't agree more - which is exactly why I moved the last three images to a gallery!)--Launchballer 23:30, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's OK I'm OK

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@MaranoFan, Viriditas, Crisco 1492, and Kimikel: "Edited into it later" needs an end-of-sentence citation.--Launchballer 11:09, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Viriditas (talk) 11:25, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fine by me.--Launchballer 11:25, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Deutscher Kurzwellensender Atlantik

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@Dumelow, Bruxton, and Flibirigit: I believe this needs an end-of-sentence citation.--Launchballer 11:22, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fine by me.--Launchballer 11:30, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Abraham Hamadeh

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Template:Did you know/Preparation area 6

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Ye Yanlan

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Looks good to me.--Launchballer 12:27, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Disputes on Wikipedia

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  • The cited article is from 2020, and knowing the community... is this still current enough, or should we mark the year? Pinging ProfGray, Viriditas, and Kimikel — Chris Woodrich (talk) 21:29, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Hi. @Crisco 1492, please be more specific. Which hook are you planning to go with? In what way would you mark the year of the article? Just asking for clarification, I'm not objecting to it. ProfGray (talk) 21:41, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Hi ProfGray. The hook "... that the longest "edit war" sequence among disputes on Wikipedia involved 20 editors making 108 reverts on the article about Turkey's first president, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk?" is currently in Prep 6 (linked above). Given that this data is four years old, and Wikipedians tend to be... passionate, I'm wondering if this source is sufficiently current to meet WP:DYKDEFINITE. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 21:44, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The prepper chose the hook, however, it's on me for not noticing the date. I would swap it out with ALT2 as that's the newest source of the bunch (2023). Viriditas (talk) 21:48, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm fine with ALT2, of course.
    For the concern about ALT1, note that the longest revert sequence happened in 2008 within 48 hours. I believe this fact (or record) is highly unlikely to change (re: WP:DYKDEFINITE) because of how 3RR has been handled for the past decade or more. Thanks. ProfGray (talk) 22:01, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That is fair, though I note their sample size was only a little more than 1,200 articles. I haven't been able to find a full copy of the text through the Wikipedia library or Google. If it's alright with you, I think ALT2 is better supported. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 22:12, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Did you know nominations/Rei Nakashima

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I created and nominated this article a couple of days ago, and I would like to request for an expediated review as I'd like the hook to run on the 27th, which is Nakashima's 20th birthday. Thank you and I hope someone can review the article soon. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:06, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Queue 5

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Núria Llansà

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@Hilst, Kingsif, and Cardofk: The wording of the hook is kind of awkward. Could this be reworked? RoySmith (talk) 15:08, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Flag of Falcón

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@Kimikel, Soman, and Crisco 1492: The hook is technically short enough (exactly 200 character), but it's a mouthful. Could this be significantly shortened? No need to cram every detail into the hook; just enough to get the reader's attention. RoySmith (talk) 15:14, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest "that the current flag of Falcón, first hoisted at the Monument to the Venezuelan Federation in 2006, is based on a then-200-year-old naval flag" or even "that the current flag of Falcón was first hoisted at the Monument to the Venezuelan Federation in 2006" if you're feeling ruthless, but I still want the {{cn}} and notability concerns I raised above resolved.--Launchballer 15:21, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lichfield War Memorial

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@Kimikel, Dumelow, and Flibirigit: There's significant WP:CLOP from historicengland.org.uk. Some of it is unavoidable, but there's a lot of text describing the structure which is so obviously directly from the source it should be quoted and attributed rather than trying to tweak a few words here or there. RoySmith (talk) 15:24, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above concern is too vague to parse. When analyzing Earwig results, I see proper nouns and directly attributed quotes. Exactly which passages do you find problematic? Flibirigit (talk) 16:50, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here's a some obvious examples. There's more, keep looking on your own. Note that WP:CLOP says Close paraphrasing, or patchwriting, is the superficial modification of material from another source. Editors should generally summarize source material in their own words.
In the years prior to the First World War the city of Lichfield housed the depot for the four reserve battalions of the South Staffordshire Regiment and the North Staffordshire Regiment
By the First World War, Lichfield was the depot for the four Reserve Battalions of the South Staffordshire and North Staffordshire Regiments
Bateman also designed the war memorial, which was constructed by Messrs Robert Bridgeman and Sons of Lichfield. The War Memorial Committee decided to restrict eleigibility for appearing on the memorial to men who were born in the city or who lived there at the time of their enlistment
The large war memorial screen, also designed by Bateman, was built by Messrs Robert Bridgeman and Sons against the east wall. It commemorates 209 local servicemen who died during the First World War: the War Memorial Committee had decided to restrict the names to those of the fallen who had been born in Lichfield, or who were living in the city at the time they enlisted
The garden and memorial were opened on 20 October 1920 by the mayor, H. G. Hall, and dedicated the same day by the Bishop of Lichfield John Kempthorne. The ceremony was attended by a large number of dignitaries, the buglers of the 6th Battalion of the North Staffordshire Regiment, the band of the 2nd Battalion of the Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry and choirs from the cathedral and local churches
The garden was opened, and the memorial screen unveiled, on 20 October 1920 by the Mayor, Councillor HG Hall, and dedicated by the Bishop of Lichfield. The garden was filled with a crowd of civic and ecclesiastical dignitaries, the families of the commemorated men, representatives of the armed services and the uniformed organisations, buglers of the 6th Battalion North Staffordshire Regiment, the band of the 2nd Battalion Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry, the combined choirs of the cathedral and Lichfield’s churches, and local residents
RoySmith (talk) 17:12, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry I have been away for a few days. I will gladly take others advice on this but my understanding per WP:FACTSONLY is that facts are not copyrightable, only creative writing is. In my view the examples above are restatements of facts from the source, but happy to look again if we think creative elements have been copied - Dumelow (talk) 07:20, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am inclined to largely agree. To me, the only part which goes beyond WP:LIMITED is the last sentence of the second highlighted paragraph. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:44, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have solved that problem by yeeting that sentence, as adding "the city's" to an earlier paragraph says the same thing.--Launchballer 13:02, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Roy, I have looked multiple times on my own, and your claims are not obvious. The sections highlighted by Earwig are groups of proper nouns which are not close paraphrasing violations. The lengthy quotes are properly attributed. I do not see where you are coming from on this. Best wishes. Flibirigit (talk) 12:33, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Did you know/Preparation area 7

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Ye Gongchuo

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SELF-iSH

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Walter Campbell Smith

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WP:DYKN seems messed up

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The articles/templates in November 7 and 8 aren't transcluding. Anyone know what is going on? « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 17:41, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The page has exceeded the maximum number of template transclusions due to the backlog of nominations. It's a known issue. Flibirigit (talk) 17:48, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For a bit more detail, see WP:PEIS RoySmith (talk) 17:51, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 17:57, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:GA had a backlog drive last month. That's probably also got something to do with it.--Launchballer 18:05, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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