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British European Studio Group

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During her junior year she studied theater at the prestigious British European Studio Group of London program, in England, an experience that fueled her desire to act.

What exactly is this British European Studio Group? Google doesn't seem to have heard of it except in this article. Flapdragon 18:53, 20 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've never heard of it. Michael 06:24, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Name

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IMDB says her last name was originally "Moessing." Is that true? Mike H. That's hot 09:06, 23 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I dunno, they could've all taken it from the IMDB. Is there a first - hand source, like an interview? JackO'Lantern 09:11, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't exactly seem like something you'd talk about in an interview. "Oh, my last name had an o in it once." Mike H. That's hot 09:25, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, what I meant it could be something she mentions to an interviewer as part of the usual info (i.e. birthplace-fullname-date), who wouldn't use a direct quote. IMDB, like Wikipedia, gets their info from sources - with luck, they are good and accurate sources, but a lot of the IMDB's recent info comes from sources located exclusively within the info submitter's head. I think her original surname would've been mentioned in something like the Jewish Journal interview I just linked to, as that one goes a bit into her background. JackO'Lantern 09:35, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The reason her last name would have been spelt Moessing is if she is of german descent. I believe this and have kept trying to add it to the page but it keeps getting removed. In German, when writing words which normally have the umlaut accent mark over a vowel, an e is placed after the o, a, or u. Thus, her name would actually be Mössing but in the American alphabet and it's lack of accents it was probably changed over. cryingstarlet 21:35 21 July 2006
If she's of German decent, the name might have also originally been "Messing" which is German for brass - no alteration of spelling necessary. YggdrasilsRoot 14:39, 31 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Claim of divorce on Daniel Zelman

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Someone added a claim on Daniel Zelman that the couple were divorced; they didn't add a supporting reference, and I can't find one, so I guess it's a rumour or a hoax. As this article gets more visibility, can I ask regulars here to add Daniel Zelman to their watchlist, so similar claims can be caught before they've been up for more than a month. 87.115.166.150 (talk) 23:39, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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Her new "East Wing" series

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No mention of her "East Wing" series on Starz, which was conceived in 2020, but, apparently, never took off? Skaizun (talk) 03:00, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 December 2023

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In the personal life section, please change the phrasing of the part where it blatantly states as facts lies about the state of Israel. This is a celebrity bio page, not a hit piece, and should not be used for internet activism. 2601:602:9000:5C70:E00F:7F41:27B3:B32 (talk) 10:30, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Deltaspace42 (talk • contribs) 19:06, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I'm insufficiently Wikipedian to format this correctly, but I noticed a typo in an URL in the references: hhttps://www.dailydot.com/debug/debra-messing-motaz-azaiza-evacuate-gaza-controversy/ has an (incorrect) double-h at the front, "hhttps" (which doesn't parse to most browsers) should be "https" 2601:645:500:EA00:4F5:121D:DE5E:6724 (talk) 03:33, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. Thank you for pointing this out. Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 09:28, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Twitter account

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The Twitter account provided here appears to be illegitimate (or belonging to someone else with her name). Can this be changed? 12.189.143.19 (talk) 21:30, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tik Tok call paragraph

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This seems grossly WP:UNDUE to me:

In November 2023, amid growing criticism of the Israeli military, Messing was among more than a dozen creators and celebrities who confronted TikTok executives in a private phone call, during which she accused the site of being "the main platform for the dissemination of Jew hate". The company reportedly pushed back against claims that it was promoting pro-Palestine, anti-Israel content through its feeds, stating instead that while the platform regularly moderates anti-semitic, anti-Arab racist, and Islamophobic content, it does not moderate or amplify the spread of content that accuses Zionism of being settler colonialism, the alleged apartheid, or the ethnic cleansing and genocide of Palestinians.[1][2] In December 2023, Messing was photographed supporting the Israeli military in the company of political commentator Douglas Murray.[3][4]

References

  1. ^ Nolan, Alia Chughtai, Marium Ali, Delaney. "Boycotts and protests – how are people around the world defying Israel?". Al Jazeera. Archived from the original on December 29, 2023. Retrieved 2023-12-29.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  2. ^ Maheshwari, Sapna (November 16, 2023). "Jewish Celebrities and Influencers Confront TikTok Executives in Private Call". The New York Times. Archived from the original on November 20, 2023. Retrieved November 20, 2023.
  3. ^ Froim, Yoni (2023-12-21). "American actor Debora Messing visits in Israel: 'Wouldn't want to be anywhere else'". Ynetnews. Archived from the original on December 27, 2023. Retrieved 2023-12-27.
  4. ^ Thalen, Mikael (25 January 2024). "'You sit inside your luxury home': Debra Messing sparks furor for mocking Palestinian journalist's decision to leave Gaza". The Daily Dot. Retrieved 19 February 2024.

The first ref (Nolan et al 2023) doesn't mention Messing. Am I overlooking something? If not, then it shouldn't be used.

The second (Maheshwari 2023) summarizes a statement she made:

Ms. Messing, who has more than 37,000 followers on TikTok, pressed executives on TikTok’s moderation of the pro-Palestinian slogan “from the river to the sea,” which many Americans regard as a call to eradicate Israel. It has been deemed antisemitic by the Anti-Defamation League and has appeared in messages and comments to many Jewish TikTok users, regardless of what they’re posting.

and quotes her:

Ms. Messing asked the company to reconsider its stance, saying: “It is much more responsible to bar it at this juncture than to say, ‘Oh, well, some people, they use it in a different way than it actually was created to mean.’ I understand that you are in a very, very difficult and complicated place, but you also are the main platform for the dissemination of Jew hate.”

If we can't find more refs of comparable or better quality, I think the content should be trimmed to a sentence.

The third re (Froim, 2023) briefly documents what looks to be a pr stunt. It seems ok for verifying the short sentence.

The fourth (Thalen 2024) is a poor source: WP:DAILYDOT. Given the article content, a summary of social media posts and responses, I don't think it should be used at all. --Hipal (talk) 17:57, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for opening this discussion. I attempted to summarize the coverage of her pro-Israel activism and take your points into account. I would like to add the following to the "Activism" section of this page:

Messing is a vocal supporter of Israel.[1][2][3] Following the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel, she gave a speech at the March for Israel in Washington, DC, in which she stated: “We will pray for the success of the IDF in a war Israel did not start and did not want, but a war Israel will win – because we must.”[4][5][1] In a November 2023 video call between TikTok executives and Jewish celebrities, Messing criticized the platform's moderation policy of the phrase "from the river to the sea" and called TikTok “the main platform for the dissemination of Jew hate.”[6][7][8] During her December 2023 trip to Israel, Messing visited the site of the Kfar Aza massacre and met with survivors of the attacks.[1][9][10] She has also participated in several open letters, including one criticizing Jonathan Glazer’s Oscars acceptance speech[11][12][2] and another opposing Bisan Owda’s Emmy nomination.[13][14][15] Her Pro-Israel views have sparked backlash on social media[1][16][17] as well as praise from Jewish organizations. The Jewish Chronicle included her as one of “The stars who came out for Israel in 2023”,[18] while Hadassah named her one of “18 American Zionist Women You Should Know”.[19][20]

Rainsage (talk) 03:08, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ a b c d Blair, Elizabeth (2024-03-01). "When celebrities show up to protest, the media follows — but so does the backlash". NPR. Retrieved 2024-10-01.
  2. ^ a b Lennard, Natasha (2024-03-19). "Even Mentioning "Occupation" at the Oscars Is Antisemitic, Some Jewish Hollywood Figures Say". The Intercept. Retrieved 2024-10-02.
  3. ^ GHERT-ZAND, RENEE (2023-12-20). "Will & Grace's Debra Messing, actor Brett Gelman visit Oct. 7 victims at hospital". Times of Israel.
  4. ^ Yan, Holly; Cohen, Gabe; Grise, Katherine (2023-11-14). "Families of hostages kidnapped by Hamas give heart-wrenching details at the packed 'March for Israel' in DC". CNN. Retrieved 2024-10-02.
  5. ^ "Throngs gather for March for Israel rally at D.C.'s National Mall to condemn antisemitism". NBC News. 2023-11-14. Retrieved 2024-10-02.
  6. ^ Maheshwari, Sapna (2023-11-16). "Jewish Celebrities and Influencers Confront TikTok Executives in Private Call". The New York Times. Archived from the original on 2024-09-01.
  7. ^ Madarang, Charisma (2023-11-17). "Sacha Baron Cohen, Debra Messing and More Jewish Celebrities on Call to TikTok Execs: 'Shame on You'". Rolling Stone. Retrieved 2024-10-02.
  8. ^ HAJDENBERG, JACKIE (2023-11-17). "Sacha Baron Cohen tells TikTok it's creating biggest antisemitic movement since Nazis". Times of Israel.
  9. ^ HAJDENBERG, JACKIE (2023-12-21). "Seinfeld, Montana Tucker among stars in Israel to 'bear witness' to Hamas atrocities". Times of Israel.
  10. ^ Froim, Yoni (2023-12-21). "American actor Debora Messing visits in Israel: 'Wouldn't want to be anywhere else'". Ynetnews. Retrieved 2024-10-02.
  11. ^ Tracy, Marc (2024-03-19). "Jewish Film Professionals Denounce Speech by 'Zone of Interest' Director". The New York Times.
  12. ^ Shoard, Catherine (2024-03-19). "Jonathan Glazer: more than 450 Jewish creatives denounce Oscars speech in open letter". The Guardian. ISSN 0261-3077. Retrieved 2024-10-02.
  13. ^ Tracy, Marc (2024-08-20). "News Emmys Defend Nomination of Palestinian Journalist". The New York Times. Archived from the original on 2024-08-20.
  14. ^ Maimann, Kevin (2024-08-21). "News Emmys stand by nomination of Palestinian journalist's documentary". CBC.
  15. ^ "Palestinian journalist Bisan Owda wins Emmy Award despite backlash from industry pros". The Independent. 2024-09-26. Retrieved 2024-10-02.
  16. ^ Culture, Ryan Smith Senior Pop; Reporter, Entertainment (2023-11-15). "Debra Messing sparks backlash over Israel statements". Newsweek. Retrieved 2024-10-02.
  17. ^ Faour, Louay (2024-01-26). "Will & Grace actress Debra Messing slammed for ridiculing Motaz Azaiza's evacuation from Gaza". New Arab.
  18. ^ Lampert, Nicole (2023-12-28). "The stars who came out for Israel in 2023". The Jewish Chronicle. Retrieved 2024-10-02.
  19. ^ "Hadassah presents: '18 American Zionist Women You Should Know'". The Jerusalem Post. 2024-05-09. Retrieved 2024-10-02.
  20. ^ Sztokman, Elana (2024-05-22). "These 18 American women are extraordinary Zionists, says Hadassah". Jewish Telegraphic Agency. Retrieved 2024-10-02.
Thanks for the additional sources.
Can we agree to not use those that are inappropriate for BLP or political content per WP:RSN discussions?
Can we agree to not use references that only mention Messing in passing?
Can we agree to not use references that are public relations pieces? --Hipal (talk) 18:11, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This looks like a good summary of her activities. I'm open to hearing @Hipal's suggestions as to which specific sources should be omitted, but at a glance they all look appropriate to me. Unbandito (talk) 18:20, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which references do you consider inappropriate and why? Rainsage (talk) 01:41, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I already identified three reasons why. Since no one objects to those reasons, let's see what refs we can use.
For the first sentence: The NPR ref looks fine to use. Throw out the other two for the reasons given. The sentence is misleading and needs to be rewritten. From what I'm seeing, Messing has been a vocal supporter of Israel since the 2023 Hamas-led attack. --Hipal (talk) 16:59, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm fine with your rewrite of the first sentence.
I disagree that the other 2 sources are inappropriate. I don't understand how the 3 reasons you gave apply to these 2 sources specifically. Can you explain more? Rainsage (talk) 06:20, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looking closer, though The Intercept piece mentions her in passing, it does make it clear that she's been vocal since the attack, which the NPR piece is vague on. It's useful for that.
The Times of Israel piece is a public relations piece at best. --Hipal (talk) 18:00, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok I added the sentence you suggested with the NPR and Intercept citations.
What about the Times of Israel piece makes it a "public relations piece"?
What do you think about the next sentence in my suggested paragraph? Rainsage (talk) 00:50, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Times of Israel piece is likely just a warmed over press release, published in a country that is at war. What about it do you think is fit for use in an encyclopedia article?
"The next sentence" beginning, "Following the..."? I'd say to simply state she gave a speech there. That seems DUE. Quoting here gets into WP:QUOTE and WP:SOAP problems. Is it possible that there is a source that summarizes her speech that we could use?
Ok I added the March for Israel without the quote. Any thoughts about the next sentence about TikTok? All 3 sources include the "main platform for the dissemination of Jew hate" quote.
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