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Talk:Isaias Afwerki

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Recent edits

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Erescholar, It looks like you are once again trying to:

  • Remove information about the mother's heritage
  • Change "War of Independence" to "Armed Struggle"

Do you have any sources about his mother's heritage that says that this is wrong?

Regarding "war of independence" - that is the name of the article. If you think it instead should be called "Armed Struggle", have you taken it up on the Talk:Eritrean War of Independence page. If the article name is not changed to an armed struggle, it's completely appropriate to call it war of independence here.

You've already been warned about these kind of edits, which are more your personal opinion than what is said commonly by cited sources... from what I can tell. So, that is WP:OR, which is problematic and subject to being reverted.–CaroleHenson (talk) 13:50, 14 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There is also an edit for a fourth sister, Monika, which would be helpful if there was a source. The cited source says that there are four sisters, but doesn't mention Monika's name. Anyone have a source for this?
Another edit added the word "not" about Isaias being cousins with Meles Zenawi. The two cited sources say that they "ARE" cousins.–CaroleHenson (talk) 13:04, 15 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This was posted on my talk page and I moved it here to keep the conversation together:–CaroleHenson (talk) 06:14, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
On Isaias Afwerki.
(1) In 1961, the Eritrean Liberation Front (ELF) was formed to wage an Armed Struggle for liberating the land from foreign rule. Hence, there was never a War for Independence. ELF was never able to wage against heavily armed Ethiopia. It was a STRUGGLE (Gedli-ገድሊ). In Eritrea, a mother who could have lost two sons in the struggle NEVER says they died in the "War for Independence". She says they were SACRIFICED IN THE STRUGGLE. This is VERY IMPORTANT for painting a correct and accurate picture for the astute reader who wishes to know the truth.
(2) After the World War II (1941 for our regions) many people from Tigray province of Ethiopia ended up Eritrea. It is very possible that Isaias' mother might have been descended from parents that came from Tigray. But there are those that deny this saying that it is the opposition of Isaias government that has fabricated this story. I surely don't know the truth and in places like Eritrea and Ethiopia there were no records of birth dates let alone the ancestors of the parents.
(3) Now, if Isias' mother's parents are traced, how about his father's parents? Where did they come from? Therefore, it is best just to give his father's name and mother's name and leave their ancestors alone.
(4) The same goes in the mention of saying that Meles of Ethiopia was Isaias' cousin. This relationship is very iffy. Those who hated Isias from all sides wished to say that Isiaias isn't a true Eritrean but related with the enemy.
THERE, I SAID MY PIECE. Of course, I am BEING VERY OBJECTIVE TO STATE THE MOST ACCURATE FOR THE READER. Isaias could care less.Erescholar (talk) 05:37, 19 July 2018 (UTC)--Erescholar (talk) 05:37, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Responses to Erescholar:
(1) Then, why is the article called Eritrean War of Independence? Shouldn't you take this up at that article? You lose me on how a mother would respond to the loss of her children - that's original research. That has nothing to do with what it is commonly called in published material (i.e. reliable sources.
(2) This is absolutely original research and not based upon material from published sources.
(3) The information came from published sources. I don't see the problem of stating her heritage, but if others agree with you that if the father's heritage is not known, it's better to leave heritage alone, then fine.
(4) This sounds like personal opinion. Do you have a source that says that the relationship is iffy? Do you know how to look for sources for your assertions, such as using a search engine, like Google, etc.?
It all gets down to sources. You still have not provided one reliable source for your assertions. I am not sure if that means that you don't have the means to do the research... or the experience to know how to do it.–CaroleHenson (talk) 06:23, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@CaroleHenson: I restored the cousinship with Meles Zenawi. In terms of personal life, this clearly is notable for a possible personal-political connection. I also improved the references (e.g. archives). Boud (talk) 03:44, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well, then somebody removed it again because there's nothing about any family connection with Zenawi in the present article. Pascalulu88 (talk) 15:09, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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"Western scholars and historians have long considered Isaias to be a dictator"

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"Western scholars and historians have long considered Isaias to be a dictator." What do African and Asian scholars and historians consider him to be? There are hardly any parts of the definition of dictator that would not apply to this gentleman. Pascalulu88 (talk) 15:00, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That sentence is currently a bit overcited, but the sources could be split to justify different parts of the sentence, or a second sentence added - provided that someone provides the African, Asian and Latin American scholars' and historians' sources. Without sources, that can't be added.
The OHCHR source is a view by human rights experts from around the world. It's mainly about the Eritrean state being a totalitarian state with massive human rights violations, with not much directly about the question of whether Afwerki is a dictator or not. However, page 38 does say Following the 2001-2002 political crackdown, President Afwerki consolidated his power and strengthened his control over the state and security apparatus, thus de facto eliminating any residual political space, which is effectively saying that he became a dictator. Paragraph 254 on page 68 effectively says that he became more and more dictatorial, through the 15 years preceding the date of the report (2015). Para 258 on p69 is a bit weaker, in that it just lists particular powers that are all centralised in Afwerki.
Some rewording - per the sources - is probably justified. What counts is the meaning of the sources, not just the particular words. We're not LLMs. :) Boud (talk) 01:19, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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