Talk:Bob Lanier Middle School

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Re: Sidney Lanier Middle School, Houston
Just another middle school. RickK 23:54, Jul 13, 2004 (UTC)

I was thinking of listing this one too, but was intrigued by the alumni list. Rhymeless 00:22, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

• Delete, delete and delete. We just have stand firm on including middle schools here. - Lucky 6.9 03:21, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. Cite other cases we've seen, with comparable alumni lists, & i will reconsider. --Jerzy(t) 04:46, 2004 Jul 14 (UTC)
• Keep! What's the harm in keeping it? Walter Cronkite went there! Neutrality 04:47, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
• Delete. Why oh why isn't there a SchoolWiki to put this rubbish in? Noisy 07:28, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
• We don't need to stand firm on not including middle schools, we simply need to stand firm on not including anything not notable. So Delete--Samuel J. Howard 07:31, Jul 14, 2004 (UTC)
• Keep (marginally). We don't need to stand firm on not including middle schools, we simply need to stand firm on not including anything not notable. (Even if it happens to be, say, a high school. Or a university). However, two of the "notable alumni" are really quite notable—Denton Cooley being the other one. The two others are governors of Texas and are notable enough to have Wikipedia articles about them, and, I just checked, those articles were not created by the author of the Sidney Lanier Middle School. So I think this article meets my personal criterion for acceptance, which is that the article, as created, include reasonable evidence of notability. Dpbsmith 12:39, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
• Delete: I'd love to see a notability rule involved in the keep/delete decision, but notability can't really go to alumni. If it does, as I've said elsewhere, PS1, PS2, etc. in NYC will get articles simply because of their population base and age. Simple statistics will tell you that schools in Hollywood and NYC will have matriculated notable people. Did the school create the person, or was it just school? Is the school referred to in the work that's notable, or was it just school? That's all hypothetical, though. The line as I understand it is (ugh) high schools stay, and middle schools go. This is a middle school. Geogre 14:08, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  • I've argued against the inclusion of schools, but I fail to see why high schools are in and middle schools are out. What's with the half measures here? If we're going to include schools, then we should include all types of schools. Exploding Boy 14:21, Jul 14, 2004 (UTC)
  • FWIW, I agree with you. I'd like to see a definition of notability, though, before the door opens. As I argue all over the place, now, alumni should be included only if the alumnus pays tribute to or could not have been notable without the school's effects (and no, that doesn't mean "couldn't have gone to college if she didn't finish this kindergarten"). Geogre 15:04, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
    • Pending a definition, you can express opinions at WIWO. Andrewa 20:28, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
• Keep: Notability due to alumni. WhisperToMe 08:42, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)
• Keep: If it's notable enough for someone to write an article about like this one, it's worthy in my humble opinion. newkai 17:29, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

end moved discussion

James Harrison link

The link (in the alumni section) points to a disambig. page with 5 James Harrisons. Which is the right one? Gimboid13 06:53, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

If no-one actually knows I suggest removing the link or even removing the name from the list. Being on the list of notable alumni requires notability. Actually if they're going to stay on the list a lot of those names should probably have a line about why they're notable. Gimboid13 22:08, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Abandoned Yellow Shack

Abandoned Yellow Shack In 2001, seven families claimed to live at an abandoned yellow shack across the street from Lanier to get their children into Cluster A at the school without being zoned to it.

It is true! -66.142.154.120 22:53, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

You need to add a verifiable reference. Where can I verify this? Postoak 22:57, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I don't know of a way you can, unless you talk to a teacher at the school. This is how I know of it. 70.240.109.110 22:10, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Talk to Ms. Taylor and tell her to post her statements on Lanier's official website. Then we can cite it :) WhisperToMe 22:13, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=1996_1363864 This person may be notable WhisperToMe (talk) 17:01, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Alt stuff

This is an attendance boundary for Lanier: http://www.purplepups.org/info/pdf/boundarymap.pdf WhisperToMe (talk) 04:37, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Houston Independent School District

Unless present a substantial indication of exceptional notability, middle school articles are to be merged with either the school district or the municipality which contain them, per school article guidelines Gtwfan52 (talk) 02:20, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

List of Houston Independent School District schools would be a better target. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 01:08, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Comment: Added new source: Urban Schools: Crisis and Revolution. WhisperToMe (talk) 02:55, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Oppose: Found meaningful secondary sources from a national publisher. WhisperToMe (talk) 06:14, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Another source was found, so I'll remove the template. WhisperToMe (talk) 16:38, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Books ineligible for being used as a source

• Idio, Ignatius E. How to Eliminate Achievement Gap Without Leaving Any Child Behind: Teacher's a Handbook of Strategies and Best Practices. is published by AuthorHouse (self publishing company) so it cannot be used as a source

WhisperToMe (talk) 02:38, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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John Culberson

The two references supplied do not support the suggestion that this chap attended this school.

Obviously I would be overjoyed to be proven wrong… TIA HAND —Phil | Talk 14:37, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

In the news, and not in a good way

There's been some scandal recently, not sure whether it should be included at this time.

TIA HAND —Phil | Talk 14:49, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Inaccuracies in History

The History section currently says that the school was named after a "well-known Confederate Soldier". Unfortunately, this interpretation is both wrong and racist. As can be seen by the sourced content on Sidney Lanier, this article about a person with a very large beard is mostly about their poetry or music or writings or whatever. The person may have obeyed orders in a "signals" role or conveyed signals while on British ships, but the whole idea of them being well-known as a "soldier" is ridiculous.

Unless someone can provide an explanation of this racist and misleading verbiage, I will remove it and will replace it with more appropriate wording.

I believe that this has been raised several times already. MPS1992 (talk) 01:33, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

First, everyone please avoid making this article a battleground. Let's avoid personal attacks, veiled or otherwise. Let us work to get the verbage correct. The sources should speak for themselves.Jacona (talk) 10:33, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Sidney Lanier was indeed a confederate soldier. He was however, also known widely as a poet, even earning the nickname "The Poet of the Confederacy". In light of this, I propose the wording should be changed to "The school was named for Sidney Lanier, a confederate soldier and poet." If the reader wants to find out more about Lanier, they can follow the link and read up.Jacona (talk) 10:41, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

I'd sure like to see some sources. Sources that speak to why this man's name was chosen for the school. Otherwise, I'd say any commentary about the why of the original naming be removed, and we simply use Sydney's wikilinked name. Also, the section on the renaming should be condensed and consolidated in the history section per WP:RECENT. We are not here to interpret history. We are here to report what others wrote about, and there is not a single source that speaks to the reasoning behind the original naming. The original naming, not things said during the renaming controversy. John from Idegon (talk) 15:09, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps it should be mentioned that it's one of several schools named after Lanier. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:06, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Looking at old newspapers, it's very clear that Lanier's fame derived from his writings, not from his extremely minor role as a confederate soldier. That said, he was beloved by the "lost cause" people, and his name was (at least partially, lol) removed from the school because of his background as a confederate soldier. Unsurprisingly, I did not find any sources from 1926 (I don't have the Chronicle, for one thing). To ignore that he was a confederate soldier is not possible giving the furor about the renaming, to do so would be failing to adhere to a WP:NPOV and could be considered whitewashing. To mention it as the only description of Lanier is equally bad IMO. For these reasons, I believe he should be described as "Sidney Lanier, a confederate soldier and poet" (or substitute author or writer for poet).Jacona (talk) 19:16, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

This is personal speculation, but I find i very likely that he confederate link was (one of) the reason they put his name on things like this school and Four Southern Poets Monument. Apparently groups like United Daughters of the Confederacy put some effort into such matters. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:25, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Huh. The United Daughters of the Confederacy worked to enhance Lanier’s posthumous reputation and succeeded in making him a symbol of the Lost Cause.Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:46, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

My proposal would be to say only "The school was originally named for Sydney Lanier." That's what we can verify. The fact that Lanier was known as an author, poet soldier all can be verified. What cannot be verified is if any of those are the reason for naming the school after him. All we have is the contemporary speculation from the renaming controversy. Best to just omit that from any Wikivoiced statement. The link will provide all that information, and readers can make their own conclusions. John from Idegon (talk) 20:38, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Let me restate that. We do not have a source we can use to even make an attributed claim ("according to the Foo Weekly, the school was named after poet SL"), so we sure cannot say it in Wikipedia's voice (the school was named after poet SL). John from Idegon (talk) 20:54, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Now we have a source from back in the day. Fascinating. The school was originally designated to be named Abraham Lincoln School but following some criticism by confederate veterans, was renamed Sidney Lanier. Let's see if I can get this clip to work..." Wed, Jul 8, 1925 Page 2 The Galveston Daily News (Galveston, Texas). Still looking for more info.Jacona (talk) 21:08, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Great work, Jacona! We should mention that in the history section. Still doesn't really address the point of this discussion, but most good bits of history are stumbled upon when looking for something else. John from Idegon (talk) 23:27, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

I've updated the article. I feel it's an improvement, but would not be surprised if I did so prematurely. If this discussion goes another way, so be it. I also changed the section heading for renaming to '2016 renaming' as the school's original name was changed back in the 20s.Jacona (talk) 10:01, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Court cases

Facts about a controversial court case have been removed from this page and the associated school district page. Neutrality flags have been set on the article and a third party opinion has been requested.

It seems fair to mention the lawsuit in a non-inflammatory way. It is important to mention because it makes the school notable. Something along the lines of: The parents of 2 students brought lawsuit against the school alleging that in 2012 the 4th amendment rights of their children were violated. As of March 2020 the case is ongoing. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/5873603/littell-v-houston-independent-school-district/ --SteveDenson6 (talk) 21:00, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Hi, SteveDenson6. First, new threads go at the bottom of the page and I've moved it (otherwise no one would notice it). Second, the lawsuit isn't in any way a factor in this article's notability. Third, there's no deadline here and this isn't a newspaper. Lawsuits involve living people and we have very strong guidelines for writing about living people. Lawsuits are not facts...their outcomes are. So, I disagree completely. We should cover a lawsuit by paraphrasing what reliable secondary sources say about its conclusion. John from Idegon (talk) 22:03, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

outdated information

The entire article is rather outdated. It may not be necessary to update it due to its somewhat low notability. 73.136.92.70 (talk) 04:07, 9 October 2023 (UTC)