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"American" or "American-British"

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This section is a 2017 followup to the 2009-2012 section Talk:Gillian Anderson/Archive 1#English? above.

For a long time, the article's opening sentence has described her as "American-British", so that appears to have been the consensus. Recently, this has been challenged, as an IP editor has changed the description to "American" citing these sources:

I am neutral on the question of describing her as "American" versus "American-British". The relevant guideline is at MOS:BLPLEAD#Context and there is support in the body of the article for the dual description (and sources such as http://www.blogtalkradio.com/robin-milling/2013/05/24/milling-about-with-gillian-anderson). I was asked for assistance with the dispute, so I am opening this discussion to see if editors might be able to reach a consensus. In the meantime, I am reverting back to the established consensus as I think we ought to respect the WP:BRD process. The IP editor has made a bold edit to change the article (B), it is reverted (R), and now there is a discussion (D) here on the talk page. Thanks, in advance, for maintaining a civil tone in the discussion to follow. Paul Erik (talk)(contribs) 01:17, 7 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Her "own identification" does not trump the literal facts in play. She was not born in the UK. She was born in The United States. Neither of her parents are British subjects but American citizens by birth. She has not taken any steps to become a British subject. The fact that she resides in the UK does not confer nationality on her. By those criteria, any American citizen who has been a long-time resident such as Madonna, Kevin Spacey and Gwyneth Paltrow can be considered English, but they are not. The fact that her children were born in the UK to a British father means nothing in relation to her national identity from a factual standpoint. The whole argument that her "own identification" should be respected basically boils down to that she pretends or wishes to be British and adapts a different accent depending what side of The Atlantic she's on, so that should now be accepted as a fact that she's British even though that is factually inaccurate. If she were referred to as 'an American-born actress based in Britain' that could be accurate. 'American-British' would be construed by most reasonable readers to mean that she is a citizen of both nations and that is simply not factual. "Self-identification" here means she considers herself British even though she is not "British" by any reasonable definition. Calling London her home and adopting an accent does not make her a British subject and the term 'American-British' is too vague and potentially confusing to many. Is there a compromise terminology that could be used that may be more accurate? 'American-British' could always be used if she seeks and receives citizenship. (67.234.180.250 (talk) 06:35, 11 July 2017 (UTC))[reply]

The Manual of Style section mentioned above makes it clear that legal citizenship is not the deciding factor. Per that and TonyIs The Woman's arguments I support mentioning both American and British (in any order). Sjö (talk) 18:31, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Are you referring to MOS:BLPLEAD#Context, which starts The opening paragraph should usually provide context for the activities that made the person notable. In most modern-day cases this will be the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident...? While "national or permanent resident" could apply here (I'm not familiar with UK immigration law), "citizen" is the first word. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 11:50, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You keep referring to British people as 'subjects' but Americans as citizens. Brits are citizens, the term 'subject' has not been a legal definition for British people for decades. Catch up with the times and get a grip! 2A0A:EF40:1251:8E01:4E0E:B7CD:156F:F780 (talk) 22:13, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Once someone has decided whether this article will promote the eponymous topic as American, British, or both, please can someone transclude Template:American English or Template:British English to the header of this talk page to settle whether traditional or colonial derivatives of English spelling and dialect should be used (as per recent edits / reversions on the article's History) just to make it abundantly clear to editors whether their localisations will be considered constructive or not. 120.18.215.80 (talk) 00:36, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]


I couldn't find anything in source 23 that actually says she is British, just lives in England. I think we need a real citation showing she is in fact british... 2A02:C7D:CA94:FB00:E997:9EE9:CFE4:5DD4 (talk) 15:01, 9 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Without the insert of any citation showing she's british, can we stop including that she is a british citizen? I'm keen on finding a source she is, I've looked around, but I haven't found any yet. Please feel free to update if someone can find a citation saying she's British. 90.207.158.232 (talk) 23:30, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It is a slippery slope if we let people self identify their citizenship. You either are, or are not a citizen of a country. There are no sources here saying she's British. She may live in Britain, speak with a British accent, and love everything about the UK, but until she acquires UK citizenship at a naturalisation ceremony, she's not British. One big problem is, lazy writers on the internet use this article as reference to show she's british, thus perpetuating the issue. If there is a source saying she's in fact a British citizen, please, someone link to it!!!! 2A02:C7F:C632:9200:9459:CADE:B138:8FE9 (talk) 12:01, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If there isn't a citation that she is in fact a British citizen, is it proper that someone just re-edited the page to show she is British? I'd change it, but looking at the user (Graham87) who changed it's history, they tend to use their admin powers to block anyone who reverts their edits. Sanbear (talk) 09:58, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]


There is a source from the UK Government (Companies House is the United Kingdom's registrar of companies) which states that she does have British nationality.

Official filings for South African Youth Education for Sustainability Ltd (SAYes)[1] which she is a founder of [2] states her nationality as British.

By comparison, listings for other UK-Resident actors previously mentioned, show their nationality as American. e.g. Kevin Spacey [3] Madonna [4] and Gwyneth Paltrow [5] 85.227.159.226 (talk) 11:25, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/NVEfRtiT-8Rj-OrE_6gsySpIu9k/appointments
  2. ^ https://sayesmentoring.org/meet-our-team/
  3. ^ https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/XcMPv_oJrcxChTg0t4E2rt6rg3U/appointments
  4. ^ https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/OAY4cxPbSOXTLxaNhDAVbv_zLSY/appointments
  5. ^ https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/ZSwwj8pZ7FJA7GCrt07vQW5Hgi4/appointments

The source that has been cited since 2016 regarding her honorary OBE specifies that she is a foreign national. It's right there in the link:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/honorary-british-awards-to-foreign-nationals-2016

The foreign office, which approves British Citizenship, would know if she was a British Citizen and would have been eligible for an OBE as opposed to honorary OBE. It's fairly hard to prove a negative, but in this case, we don't know what other citizenships she has, but we can see she's not British. Maybe she's Icelandic and living in England on an EU residence permit, we don't know without proof, but she's not British. Sanbear (talk) 07:32, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RfC about citizenship

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Can the article describe her as "American-British"? 85.227.159.226 (talk) 22:21, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment.She was given an honorary OBE by the foreign office, only given to foreign nationals. The Home Office, and in this case, Her Majesty, consider her not British. It's been a reference on this page for ages.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/honorary-british-awards-to-foreign-nationals-2016 She would have gotten a regular OBE if she was British. Sanbear (talk) 22:36, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]


  • Oppose. Does not have British citizenship. Softlavender (talk) 12:26, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. In the article, we learn that she spent a few years of her youth in Britain, and as for what she has to say about the issue, we have "I've been asked whether I feel more like a Brit than an American and I don't know what the answer to that question is. I know that I feel that London is home and I'm very happy with that as my home. I love London as a city and I feel very comfortable there. In terms of identity, I'm still a bit baffled."[28] I don't think this makes her decidedly British, and if she doesn't have citizenship, it's a pretty big stretch to describer her that way. jp×g 13:47, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as misleading without British citizenship.--Astral Leap (talk) 09:26, 24 November 2020 (UTC) sock p. of banned[reply]
  • Oppose per reasons above. Idealigic (talk) 13:26, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. ~ HAL333 22:56, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per reasons given above. Rondolinda (talk) 22:20, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per reasons given above.SailedtheSeas (talk) 21:44, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per reasons given above. "American-British" connotes a British citizen of American heritage, and she is simply an American living in Britain. NebbyWan (talk) 03:32, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: She does not have British citizenship. To describe her as "American-British" (or "British-American", for that matter) would be misleading at best, inaccurate at worst. A. Randomdude0000 (talk) 20:15, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: What makes her case unique is that she grew up in the UK from the ages of 1-11. The formative decade. That's fairly substantial. Though American on paper, she certainly "grew up" British in the cultural sense. Madonna and the other Americans mentioned were already adults when they moved to the UK. Anderson actually grew up there, currently resides there, and goes out of her way to affect a British accent. I'd imagine when her parents brought her back "home," she certainly didn't talk like the other American kids in her class. So, the question isn't simply one of citizenship (she doesn't appear to be a British citizen), but also one of culture. She is indeed British in the cultural sense (more so than she is culturally American, though she is American on paper). 71.226.227.121 (talk) 01:00, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose She does not have British citizenship, which is the only meaningful, and the commonly understood, meaning of "British", it isn't primarily a cultural identification. That Anderson is a long-term resident of UK and has done much work there can be noted as well if wanted, but it is simply factually misleading to call her British.

I believe she does actually have British citizenship though. 78.150.91.150 (talk) 01:09, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Gillian Anderson

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I find it strange how all the British actress on here are classed as British American actress but you have Gillan as only American? she she's lived in Britain longer than in America has British citizenship an OBE what more do you need, her information should be charged to American British Actress ASAP 92.234.17.165 (talk) 09:12, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is no available evidence that Anderson has British citizenship (and significant evidence that she didn't have it at least as of 2016, when she was awarded an honorary OBE that is only eligible for non-British nationals). If you have a source for that, cite it as part of the discussion. Irregulargalaxies (talk) 22:10, 13 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]


She's still not British. If someone finds a source saying she's been naturalised, cool, but till then... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sanbear (talk • contribs) 11:49, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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