Talk:Shamisen

Pronunciation

The pronunciation is usually "shamsen" (never "sa")

Is this really the case? EDICT gives both しゃみせん and さみせん as readings. DopefishJustin (・∀・) 06:11, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

You're absolutely right. I'm glad I wasn't logged in when I wrote that (?). "Sa" seems rare. Loads of hits on Google, but it's difficult to sort out the mess (sometimes Google returns pieces of adjacent words). The real hits might be intentional archaism; it seems not to be in current use. Some dictionaries refer "samisen" to "shamisen" or omit it entirely, as does Japanese WP. But "never" was wrong, and I apologize. Glad you caught it! Fg2 10:43, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

(The dictionary evidence notwithstanding, have either of you ever actually heard it pronounced as "sa"? --RJCraig 08:41, 22 July 2005 (UTC))

No, at least not that I can recall. Fg2 09:06, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

I believe it is sometimes heard in Kansai speech. It's also more common in older Western writings about the instrument (not that that necessarily matters, since Malm lists and early spelling as "shahisen" [sic] or something like that). STS 11:51, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

As a small boy living in Japan in 1947-9, I distinctly remember attending formal dinners with my parents at a country estate near Tokyo during which the Geishas were playing what they referred to as "Samisens". These girls let me try my hand at playing the instrument. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.128.145.14 (talk) 19:52, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Naniwa-bushi

I moved the following text from the article:

"The earliest known form of shamisen music is Naniwa-Bushi, played in the Saka area (which was then known as Naniwa). This style developed from biwa music and hence developed a strong narrative tradition known as joruri, as well as being popular as celebratory music for large public gatherings. As shamisen music evolved, it generally split into two distinct styles: narrative traditions (katarimono) and lyrical music (utaimono). Sekkyo-Bushi, an early form of Buddhist ballad drama, became a popular usage for the shamisen while jiuta was one of the most popular lyrical forms. The many different styles of shamisen music that soon developed were extremely distinct, often requiring a shamisen of a particular size, shape and design."

The Japanese Wikipedia article ja:浪花節 (なにわぶし) contradicts the above, saying that Naniwa-bushi is a Meiji-era style. It further says that the name comes from the originator, 浪花伊助 (I suppose that's Naniwa Isuke). Moreover, Naniwa is a name for Osaka, but I've never heard of it as a name for Hiroshima. Most likely, it should be Sakai, Osaka. If someone can straighten out the origins and influences, it would be beneficial for the article.

Fg2 09:39, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Why not just put the paragraph back and change "earliest known" to "an early"? Once some shamisen scholars start chiming in in future months or years, it will get fixed. No point in deleting large chunks of the article because one word is wrong.

I thought of doing that, but then I figured that Meiji is late, not early. The shamisen had been in use for centuries in kabuki etc. Not sure what the best way to work in the info would be. Fg2 21:03, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

True enough; Meiji is late. Does the article state the time period the shamisen was first adopted/developed in Japan? This information shouldn't be hard to find, then the rest would fall into place. I agree that we shouldn't allow any misinformation to be propagated in Wikipedia articles. Badagnani 21:05, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

By the way, why remove the geographical region of the tsugaru style? I think you should put that back, as not everyone knows that. Badagnani 19:42, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Oh, I see at the end of the article that it says it's from the "north of Honshu." Not very specific, but at least it's still in the article. Badagnani 19:44, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

The instrument came to Japan via Okinawa rather than directly from China, no? Meaning it arrived first in a port. I'll try and find out but Sakai in Naniwa (as in Osaka) would make more sense than Hiroshima, I think. If it came directly from China, Hiroshima might be more likely, all things considered. Another possibility is a case of one name for two genres? Look at enka. STS 11:58, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Accuracy

No idea if this is in the right place & I'm not about to start butchering the article - "...Yoshida brothers developed..."?? This will be news to the entire Tsugaru tradition of playing which, AFAIK, is all they're doing. They certainly made it popular in the mass market and added modern instruments to the mass media mix, but they didn't develop anything per se. Northern Iwate ken, south eastern Aomori, it's the dominant folk style of of playing. (Based purely on my experience living there & what the locals say and all :) ) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.50.109.185 (talk) 01:32, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Deleting text

On the skin of some of the best shamisen, the position of the cat's nipples can be seen., I doubt it's the viewing of the nipples that makes them the best, describe the underbelly skin if you can source this claim. Sherurcij ^{(talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject)} 21:05, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Nipple references: http://www.itchu.com/e/e_parts_shamisen.html http://www.bornplaydie.com/japan/travel/okinawa/okinawa.htm

I think maybe it's the fact that it's a cat's skin that makes the shamisen of best quality. I think lower-quality instruments use plastic or dog skin (though maybe dog skin is normal for heavier instruments).

Geisha shamisen = cat skin, tsugaru shamisen = dog skin. At least according to the three tsugaru shamisen masters who told me it over the last two days in Aomori. --49.98.10.170 (talk) 12:14, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

One of the above references appears to indicate that the position of the nipples is important.

I'm quite sure I read that in Malm as well. It's true that cat skin is used in the most expensive instruments. I think the area concerned has the finest skin, which is why that is an important titbit. That pun was completely unintentional, please forgive it. STS 11:53, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

But should we really be talking about nipples at all? I'm a male child working on a project about music in Japan. I looked up nipple on wikipedia and it freaked me out. 24.87.56.142 (talk) 22:03, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Very young children around the world are used to dealing with nipples on a daily basis, as it is where they derive their food. Badagnani (talk) 22:40, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, it still scared me. I don't ever want to look at that picture ever again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.87.56.142 (talk) 15:24, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Misnomer

There is a picture in the "Variations in construction and playing style" heading that reads "A young Japanese boy demonstrating shamisen in Warszawa, Poland during the 5th Cross Culture Festival." That is NOT a shamisen, it is the Okinawan sanshin and this needs to be corrected. Thanks. KogeJoe (talk) 03:12, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

WP:Japan Assessment Commentary

I evaluated the article as C-class, though the text is really B-class. Here are some points that might improve the article:

• References: Gotta have 'em. At least one to a paragraph seems to be the general rule.
• Supporting Materials: Photos and images are all good, but the article could use an infobox. See Template:Infobox Instrument. Good luck. Boneyard90 (talk) 15:08, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Bad Audio Link

The link in the last bullet of the Audio section in references is busted for me. I'm not sure where the contributor thought he/she was going with that so I didn't fix it. Peter Wisner (talk) 04:31, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Suggestions for article

I tagged this article as confusing. The article's lead section is not very good, see WP:LEAD. The article contents are not very coherent, it is very easy to get confused reading such a mish-mash of thoughts. It is also poorly-referenced. One big problem is that the article never bothers to describe what kind of music a shamisen is used to play, except in very technical terms. JoshuSasori (talk) 23:32, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

The shamisen, duly linked, is mentioned on the Morticia Addams page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CD89:8710:DDDD:8420:B387:2633 (talk) 05:41, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Koma Heights

The article says things like "Heights used: 2.6 and 2.8 are the standard." What units are these in? Millimetres? One online shop offers 7mm or 8mm koma, so that seems wrong. Is it a special Japanese unit? DrHacky (talk) 06:55, 30 September 2015 (UTC)