Talk:Duchy of Carinthia

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Link to Otto I, Holy Roman Emperor

Is that link really correct? Just look up when he died and what time we are talking about here. One might think that this site should link to Otto III, Holy Roman Emperor, but he died in 1002, wheras this page states that "Otto" ruled in Carinthia until 1004. Martg76 19:32, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I don't know...Otto III is probably a better candidate, maybe the dates are wrong here. Adam Bishop 08:22, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Several of the early dates are clearly wrong (Henry the Fowler, Otto I, Conrad I). They cant be ruling after they have died. Conrad predates Henry and neither were Holy Roman emperors but they were German kings. Anyone know where the source of this list is? --Countakeshi 12:23, 4 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I fixed the pre-1122 list based on the Lexikon des Mittelalters. I did not do anything about the ambiguous numbering of the Henries... that's a whole different can of worms. --Chl 02:48, 24 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unilateral move

Why was this page moved from Carinthia (duchy)? The latter is in line with the names of other pages, such as Styria (duchy), Carinthia (state) and Carinthia (province). I propose that this page should be moved back. Martg76 10:07, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I tend to like to avoid parentheses, especially when there's a perfectly sensible non-parenthesis way to refer to something. Duchy of Styria and Duchy of Carinthia would make sense. john k 22:03, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Moved it back to the format you mentioned, if anyone has objections they can voice their concerns here. Gryffindor 08:03, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a Latin name for Carinthia?

I would like to translate this term, thanks.--User:Fitzwilliam 11:21, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Carantania, probably. Adam Bishop 15:05, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There's an article for it, Carantania. It refers to the same area as Carinthia. Curiously, is there any sites about place names in Latin?--User:Fitzwilliam 15:28, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

We have List of Latin place names in Continental Europe, but Carinthia doesn't seem to be on it. Adam Bishop 15:31, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Er, isn't "Carinthia" a Latin name? A lot of English forms are actually the same as Latin forms. This site gives the full titles in Latin of Ferdinand III and later those of Leopold II, including "Dux Carinthiae" - other Habsburg ruled places which have the same name in Latin and English are Bohemia, Dalmatia, Croatia, Austria, Carniola, Slavonia, Lodomeria, Moravia, Silesia, and Tyrol. In particular, if an English place name end sin "ia", it's probably Latin, isn't it? john k 15:39, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is true for Austria, for example. Perhaps Carantania is the old name of that place.--User:Fitzwilliam 15:53, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

That's true...I was assuming a Latin form wouldn't have "th" in it, but by the time Carinthia existed that wouldn't be a problem. Adam Bishop 20:02, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Translation

It seems the German Wikipedia has a lot of the dukes' articles. They could use translating by anybody competent in German. Especially de:Heinrich III. (Kärnten). Srnec 04:16, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Moved over from Koroška

I moved the following over from Koroška's history section as it is better to unite all the history in one place. Please integrate it into this article, if there's any information missing here. Str1977 ^(talk) 15:10, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Carinthia was settled by Slavic tribes around the 6th century. They formed a new people, called Carantanians, and Carinthia became the central part of the Principality of Carantania, the first state of Proto-Slovenians^[1] and also the first stable Slav state ever. Carantania lost its autonomy in the early 9th century when it fell under Frankish power and as Carinthian March formed the south-eastern protective march of Charlemagne's empire. Thus in the Holy Roman Empire Carinthia was at first part of the Duchy of Bavaria, but in 976 it was established as a duchy of its own, the sixth duchy of the Holy Roman Empire, extending far beyond its present borders with its own protective march to the northeast and east that, confusingly, was also named Carinthian or Carantanian March and covered an area which when it had emancipated from Carinthia eventually became the Duchy of Styria. Already much reduced the Duchy of Carinthia was later controlled by the Habsburgs (1335 - 1918), under the Holy Roman Empire until 1806, then in the Austrian Empire (which after 1867 was known as Austria-Hungary). It was populated by Germans from Bavaria, and Slovenes, who in growing numbers assimilated. The ceremony of the installation of the duke in Slovene language was kept into the 14th century.^[2]--Marschner (talk) 19:47, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Peter Štih, Professor at Ljubljana University and Associate Member of the Slovene Academy of Sciences, considers the Alpine Slavs of Carantania quite a different people from the later Slovenes.[[1]](Slovene) and [[2]](German)
^ See entry "Prince's Stone"

Area

What's the area (in km2 and mi2) of this Duchy? --24.129.72.118 (talk) 09:47, 9 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Province of the Austrian Empire"

"Territories" would be a term much better fitting for the parts of the Empire than "provinces". Will someone please improve on that "[hide]v • d • province of the Austrian Empire" ?--Marschner (talk) 19:44, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

1911 Britannica used "crownland," FWIW. john k (talk) 06:07, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

True for Carinthia, but not for all of Austria's "Königreiche und Länder" (i.e. "Kingdoms and Lands"). "Crownlands of the Austrian Empire" would not include the Kingdom of Hungary - not even before the Austro-Hungarian Compromise of 1867. --Marschner (talk) 09:33, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Crownlands" is being used specifically for territories in the Austrian half of the monarchy in 1911. So, no Hungary. Obviously the right term in German is Land. But I don't think German Land necessarily translates correctly to the English "land" in this context - Leo gives a whole bunch of different translations for Land, including "country" and "territory". john k (talk) 15:59, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Quite so, that's why I suggested "territories" - what about "Constituent territories"? Today's political "Land" translates as "State", and this is also used in the List of the states of the Holy Roman Empire ("Component States" in the article Holy Roman Empire), but "state" appears too grand a term for the lands of the Austrian Empire, which had practically no autonomy. But I hate that term "province". I don't see how the Canadians can live with it :).--Marschner (talk) 17:22, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that "state" would be a bad choice. I think "constituent territory" is pretty good for the duchies and margraviates and such, and that we should use "constituent kingdom" for Dalmatia, Galicia-Lodomeria, and Bohemia. But I think "Crownlands" would be about as good for territories in the Austrian half. john k (talk) 20:44, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Could it be that we are not talking about same heading:

?--Marschner (talk) 07:53, 18 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] Peter Štih, Professor at Ljubljana University and Associate Member of the Slovene Academy of Sciences, considers the Alpine Slavs of Carantania quite a different people from the later Slovenes.[[1]](Slovene) and [[2]](German)

[2] See entry "Prince's Stone"

[1]

[2]