Talk:Darius

Removed text

Removed following pseudohistory. -- Aprilyo

Shortly after his rout of Egypt, madness came upon the Persian king Cambyses, and he died, having committed many crimes, among which was the slaying of his brother Smerdis. And there rose up one among the Magi who pretended to be Smerdis, and was proclaimed king. But this false Smerdis was one whose ears had been cut off, and he was thus found out by one of his wives, the daughter of a Persian nobleman, Otanes. Then seven nobles conspired together, since they would not be ruled over by one of the Magi; and having determined that it was best to have one man for ruler, rather than the rule of the people or of the nobles, they slew Smerdis and made Darius, the son of Hystaspes, their king. Then Darius divided the Persian empire into twenty satrapies, whereof each one paid its own tribute, save Persia itself, and he was lord of all Asia, and Egypt also.

In the days of Cambyses, Polycrates was despot of Samos, being the first who ever thought to make himself a ruler of the seas. And he had prospered marvellously. But Oroetes, the satrap of Sardis, compassed his death by foul treachery, and wrought many other crimes; whom Darius in turn put to death by guile, fearing to make open war upon him. And not long afterwards, he sent Otanes to make conquest of Samos. And during the same days there was a revolt of the Babylonians; and Darius went up against Babylon, yet for twenty months he could not take it.

Howbeit, Babylon was taken by the act of Zopyrus, who, having mutilated himself, went to the Babylonians and told them that Darius had thus evilly entreated him, and so, winning their trust, he made easy entry for the Persian army, and so Babylon was taken for the second time.

Now, Darius was minded to make conquest of the Scythians-concerning which people, and the lands beyond those which they inhabit, there are many marvels told, as of a bald-headed folk called Argippaei; and the Arimaspians or one-eyed people; and the Hyperborean land where the air is full of feathers. Of these lands are legends only; nothing is known. But concerning the earth's surface, this much is known, that Libya is surrounded by water, certain Phoenicians having sailed round it. And of the unknown regions of Asia much was searched out by order of Darius. Darius deloache attends hopewells middle school

The Scythians themselves have no cities; but there are great rivers in Scythia, where of the Ister is the greatest of all known streams, being greater even than the Nile, if we reckon its tributaries. The great god of the Scythians is Ares; and their war customs are savage exceedingly, and all their ways barbarous. Against this folk Darius resolved to march.

His plan was to convey his army across the Bosporus on a bridge of boats, while the Ionian fleet should sail up to the Ister and bridge that and await him. So he crossed the Bosporus and marched through Thrace, subduing on his way the Getae, who believe that there is no true death.

But when he passed the Ister, he would have taken the Ionians along with him; but by counsel of Coes of Mitylene, he resolved to leave them in charge of the bridge, giving order that, after sixty days, they might depart home, but no sooner.

THEN the Scythians, fearing that they could not match the great king's army, summoned the other barbaric peoples to their aid; among whom were the Sauromatians, who are fabled to be the offspring of the Amazons. And some were willing, but others not. Therefore the Scythians retired before Darius, first towards those peoples who would not come to their help; and so enticed him into desert regions, yet would in no wise come to battle with him.

Now, at length, Darius found himself in so evil a plight that he began to march back to the Ister. And certain Scythians came to the Ionians and counselled them to destroy the bridge, the sixty days being passed. And this Miltiades, the Athenian despot of the Chersonese, would have had them do, so that Darius might perish with all his army; but Histiaeus of Miletus dissuaded them, because the rule of the despots was upheld by Darius. And thus the Persian army was saved, Megabazus being left in Europe to subdue the Hellespontines. When Megabazus had subdued many of the Thracian peoples, who, indeed, lack only union with each other to make them the mightiest of all nations, he sent an embassy to Amyntas, the king of Macedon, to demand earth and water. But because those envoys insulted the ladies of the court, Alexander, the son of Amyntas, slew them all, and of them or all their train naught was heard more.

Now Darius, with fair words, bade Histiaeus of Miletus abide with him at the royal town of Susa. Then Aristagoras, the brother of Histiaeus, having failed in an attempt to subdue Naxos, and fearing both Artaphernes, the satrap of Sardis, and the Persian general Megabazus, with whom he had quarrelled, sought to stir up a revolt of the Ionian cities; being incited thereto by secret messages from Histiaeus.

To this end he sought alliance with the Lacedaemonians; but they would have nothing to do with him, deeming the venture too remote. Then he went to Athens, whence the sons of Pisistratus had been driven forth just before. For Hipparchus had been slain by Harmodius and Aristogiton, and afterwards Hippias would hardly have been expelled but that his enemies captured his children and so could make with him what terms they chose. But the Pisistratidae having been expelled, the city grew in might, and changes were made in the government of it by Clisthenes the Alcmaeonid. But the party that was against Clisthenes got aid from Cleomenes of Sparta; yet the party of Clisthenes won.

Then, since they reckoned that there would be war with Sparta, the Athenians had sought friendship with Artaphernes at Sardis; but since he demanded earth and water they broke off. But because Athens was waxing in strength, the Spartans bethought them of restoring the despotism of the Pisistratidae. But Sosicles, the Corinthian, dissuaded the allies of Sparta from taking part in so evil a deed. Then Hippias sought to stir up against the Athenians the ill-will of Artaphernes, who bade them take back the Pisistratidae, which they would not do.

Therefore, when Aristagoras came thither, the Athenians were readily persuaded to promise him aid. And he, having gathered the troops of the Ionians, who were at one with him, marched with them and the Athenians against Sardis and took the city, which by a chance was set on fire. But after that the Athenians refused further help to the Ionians, who were worsted by the Persians. But the ruin of the Ionians was at the sea-fight of Lade, where the men of Chios fought stoutly; but, they of Samos and Lesbos deserting, there was a great rout.

Minor Edit: Updated Kasparitis

Darius Kasparitis is not currently in the NHL. I've updated the disambiguation page to show this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.167.219.97 (talk) 00:28, 3 February 2007 (UTC).

Darius the Mede

Darius the Mede currently redirects here. But does Darius the Mede need disambiguation at all? Is there any other Darius the Mede other than the one in the Book of Daniel? Andrewa (talk) 05:53, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Rabbit

Why nothing about Darius the 4-foot-something, 50-pound rabbit? --92.19.13.126 (talk) 23:01, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Alphabetical?

The section "Modern" seems to have a half hearted attempt to be alphabetical... but should be re-edited if that is the desired result. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.193.106.116 (talk) 12:06, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Dario in languages

There is no Dario/Darijo name in slavic people other than Croats (which aquired it from Italians). It is common name in Croatia, and well, if there is any other Dario in slavic country other than Croatia, it must be as often as in non-slavic countries where name is NOT common. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AurgelmirCro (talk • contribs) 20:53, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Primary topic

I suggest moving this page to Darius (disambiguation) so that Darius I of Persia can be made WP:PRIMARYTOPIC (pending the outcome of this discussion). He is the only individual on this list who can reasonably be designated simply as "Darius" on first reference, and this is in fact his usual designation. Kauffner (talk) 05:16, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I oppose this move on the grounds that Darius III is not much less well-known. I woiuld be interested to see which shources refer to him as simply Darius on first mention, and in what context (e.g. are there no works on Alexander the Great which refer to Darius III as Darius on first mention?). I went into this on the other page. I am getting confused about where we are having these discussion, tried following the links but just went round in circles. PatGallacher (talk) 12:21, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

In Marathon 490 BC: the first Persian invasion of Greece, the first Darius is given simply as "Darius" 16 times, never as "Darius I" or "Darius the Great." In Alexander the Great by Richard Stoneman, the first mention of the third Darius is "Darius III" (p. 16). In Britannica, the article for Darius I is 1,300 words long; The one for Darius III is 300 words. If you look at this ngram, you'll see that vastly more books give "Darius" than give "Darius III" or are any of the other elaborations that struck me as plausible. Obviously, a hit for "Darius III" is also a hit for "Darius." But even if you subtract the elaborations from the number of books containing "Darius", it is clear that most authors use just plain "Darius" and do not elaborate even at first mention. Nearly half the "Darius" hits on Google Books are Persian related, so this gap cannot be explained by modern celebrities named Darius. At most, the modern celebrities can explain the rise in the use of "Darius" since 2000. Kauffner (talk) 13:17, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Kaufner, so are you saying that we should ignore 2500 years of literature and history books and base this discussion on a single book that you found about the Battle of Marathon which you claim never mentions "the Great"? Why?Ordibehesht22 (talk) 01:07, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

This discussion is about the primary topic issue, i.e. when a reader types in simply "Darius" as a search term, who is he likely to be referring to? If you want to comment on "the Great" issue, there is a separate discussion here. Also take a look at this ngram. Kauffner (talk) 01:31, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

It was highly improper to move this page without going through a proper move request, given that this was clearly controversial. I will reply to the other points later. PatGallacher (talk) 16:35, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Just possibly I am getting confused here, although at present I doubt it. There was no point moving "Darius" to "Darius (disambiguation)" unless the intention was to move "Darius I of Persia" to "Darius", the former move without the latter would not make sense, it is irrelevant that there was a speedy deletion request, admins are not obliged to accept these requests. If people want to make Darius I the primary meaning of Darius so be it, but this is a controversial move request which should be taken through the proper channels, surely the status quo applies until then. PatGallacher (talk) 17:07, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

After PatGallacher objected to my honoring the CSD request and then making the move, I have re-examined this and I agree that the move was incorrect without a proper move discussion - as there are so many possible "Darius" targets, I don't think it is clear cut that Darius I of Persia is an uncontroversial primary target. As PatGallacher has already reverted the move, I have now also reverted several redirects so they are also back the way they were. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:12, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I requested that Darius (disambiguation) be speedy deleted so that it would be possible to move the DAB there without further administer involvement should that be the outcome of the discussion here. The move itself was a part that action, not something I specifically requested. The DAB remained the primary topic throughout this episode and I did not change that. I have already voted against moving Darius I of Persia on that page. The name of the Darius I article will be determined by an admin based on the vote on that page. I am assuming that the new name will not be "Darius", as that would make any discussion here pointless. "Primary topic" means that "Darius" would be a redirect to "Darius I of Persia." I certainly didn't expected any of this to be controversial, although now it looks like a formal move request will be necessary. Kauffner (talk) 18:22, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I'd just like to point out that the singer Darius Campbell is, to many, known just as Darius, and he used a mononym to release his music. –anemoneprojectors– 18:30, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I'd like to confirm that the decision to do the move was mine (and that mistake was mine). However, the reason given for the deletion of the target was that it was holding up a page move, and had that move not already been agreed, there was actually no justification for deleting the target page - if a move is not agreed, the target should not be deleted. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 18:56, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and concerning ""Primary topic" means that "Darius" would be a redirect to "Darius I of Persia."", I don't think that's valid - I might be wrong, but I don't see how a primary topic can be a redirect - something gets to be a primary topic if it is a natural candidate for an article by that actual name. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 18:59, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

According to WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, "The primary topic for "Danzig" is the former German city of that name, but the article on that city is titled Gdańsk. Therefore Danzig redirects to Gdańsk". So the issue here is whether 'Darius I of Persia' is the primary topic of 'Darius', while the issue of the article title can be discussed separately. Kauffner (talk) 02:19, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Ah yes, that's true. In the case of 'Darius', I don't think it's at all obvious that 'Darius I of Persia' would be considered the primary topic - so I would have to oppose the move -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 08:53, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

The Google rankings (Darius) show Darius I/Darius the Great as topic No. 1, Darius Campbell as No. 2 (some Scottish boy toy, apparently), and no other Darius that is even in the running. Kauffner (talk) 13:25, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Google rankings aren't sufficient - "Primary topic" does not mean "most common topic". What we need is evidence that a particular topic is usually associated with that name by most people, and I just don't think that is the case with "Darius". As an example, ask 100 people what "Danzig" is and what "Darius" is - I expect a lot will tell you that Danzig is a city, but very few will have any clue about Darius I. Also, the more alternatives there are in the disambig page, the less likely it is that there's a clear Primary topic. As it says at WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, it has to be "the case that one of these topics is highly likely—much more likely than any other, and more likely than all the others combined—to be the subject being sought when a reader enters that ambiguous term in the Search box". In the case of "Darius", I really don't think we have that. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 14:59, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 21:58, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Darius → Darius (disambiguation) – This move would allow Darius to become a redirect with Darius the Great as the primary topic. There is a very long list of entries on this DAB, but the overwhelming majority are people here only because their given name is "Darius" (or even "Dario"), which is not necessarily the same as being commonly designated "Darius," e.g. George Washington isn't listed in George. Google rankings (Darius) suggest that Darius the Great/Darius I/Darius I Hystaspes is the No 1 topic for this word. The other topics that come up are non-educational: Darius Campbell and Darius Henderson. (The ranking of the latter is tied strictly to current news.) Some editors have suggested that Darius III is also notable, and you can compare the traffic here and here. Kauffner (talk) 05:36, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

• Support per Kauffner's sound reasoning that Darius I is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Jenks24 (talk) 09:48, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose Darius III is not much less well-known than Darius I, and we also have Darius Campbell, sometimes known as plain Darius. PatGallacher (talk) 15:05, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose per Gallacher, III is also quite well known. 65.94.45.160 (talk) 04:34, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

I had to go the third page of Darius Web hits to find even one result that referred to Darius III. As for Darius Campbell, he is barely mentioned on Google books. Kauffner (talk) 05:18, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Campbell is also known by the name Darius Danesh, you'd probably find more under that name. Also, as he's been just known as Darius, many sources don't include his surname. Try searching 'Darius "Pop Idol"' or 'Darius Popstars' (the two shows that made him famous). –anemoneprojectors– 09:19, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose, what PatGallacher said, and previous discussion above. –anemoneprojectors– 09:19, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Darius, son of Artaxerxes II is missing. He was Co Ruler with his father and had a son Arbupales, who was killed in battle 335 at Granicud against Alexander III of Macedonia.

Can someone edit Darius the crown Prince of Artaxerxes II, who was Co Ruler with his father and killed so that Artaxerxes III Ochus could become king. His son Arbupales fought at Granicus 335 against Alexander III of Macedon. 2003:E7:F703:EAB5:DD47:65E7:ABBA:1C65 (talk) 21:40, 6 December 2021 (UTC)